Talk:Project grants/Photographing UK cathedrals
Discussion
For those who may not be aware, David was one of our three judges for the Wiki Loves Monuments competition last year. He is a well known contributor of professional-standard images to Commons, concentrating on the built enviroment, and virtually every image he submits has the potential to become a Featured Picture. There are significant gaps in Commons holdings in this area that this project could go some way to filling. There is to my knowledge nobody within Commons or within our own community who could do a better job of this than David, and I strongly support his application. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:11, 16 June 2014 (BST)
Support. David: do you need to factor in parking charges? I usually ignore "no commercial photography" restrictions, but perhaps the cathedrals concerned could be placated with the offer of copies of the images for their own use? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:22, 16 June 2014 (BST)
- Andy, that's a good point, I hadn't factored parking charges in. I imagine that in some cities, it will not be easy to find free parking and even if I could, it would mean wasted time where time is very much of the essence given my optimistic schedule! Perhaps an additional £40 would cover parking charges assuming an average charge of £2-3 per city. As for dealing with restrictions on commercial photography, normally if I were to just shoot away and downplay my intentions of publication, I'd probably 'get away with it' and hear nothing more of it, but these cathedrals seem to quite keen to control both their 'image' and their ability to profit from commercial photographers and filmcrews. Given my tripod and equipment will probably immediately set off their alarm bells, I'd rather play it safe and get permission from cathedrals that have a policy on their website about commercial photography. Only a few are explicit about restricting commercial photography. If I can't find any information on their websites and they don't ask me to stop, I'll assume everything is ok. Diliff (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2014 (BST)
Thank you David for your application. I have notified the Grants Committee who may offer further comments on what they think of the application. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2014 (BST)
Comments from Simon
Looks very worthwhile and a thorough application. Very happy to support this as per the comments above. Sjgknight (talk) 20:28, 16 June 2014 (BST)
Comments from CT Cooper
Thank you for your application. I have read through it and I'm currently inclined to give it my full support.
The costs you've provided appear to be reasonable for what the community will get out of the trip, and I'm not going to ask for a further breakdown at this time. The map you've provided is very helpful, though I understand it is subject to change. Using a caravan is a good idea, and will probably be much cheaper than arranging hotels, though I feel inclined to make the standard remark – please me mindful of your safety and security when choosing where to stop for the night.
On liaising with the cathedrals and other buildings, I think it would be prudent to make any reasonable donation that the cathedrals ask for. £3 is a small amount and I'm more than happy to approve it. The "no commercial photography" is a potential issue, so I would tread carefully. I'm not qualified to give legal advice, but copyright will be irrelevant for the most part, as the architecture of the cathedrals themselves should be in the public domain by now, and failing that, UK freedom of panorama covers public places and premises open to the public. Only some 2D works of recent creation are a potential issue; I will leave such issues to your judgement. That said, I believe these buildings will be private property, so if they explicitly tell you that your photography is not wanted or similar, whether on site or by e-mail, I would strongly recommend you skip the cathedral in question. However, I hope offers of donations and giving them copies of the photos will prevent such a situation from occurring. I would be happy to support increasing the budget to resolve this as needed, as long as the amount is reasonable i.e. "donations" of hundreds to thousands of pounds aren't going to happen.
In the meantime, I wish you the best of luck with your project and I hope it all comes together. CT Cooper · talk 18:16, 16 June 2014 (BST)
- Thanks for your comments. I think your analysis of the legal aspects of commercial photography sounds about right. I have been dealing with one cathedral in particular (Chichester Cathedral) which has initially said no on the basis that the images couldn't be guaranteed to remain only on Wikipedia/Commons. I diplomatically asked for them to reconsider and pointed out that it was rather at-odds with the idea that the cathedral exists to serve the community, and that the community was best served by it being open towards Wikipedia and open content. After all, regardless of where the image ends up being used, I fail to see how a high quality and attractive image could do anything else than attract visitors to the cathedral. It is also prudent for cathedrals to consider Wikipedia not just as an encyclopaedia but as an important source of information for potential visitors. In any case, I've managed to make a few contacts within the Diocese of London who have been both enthusiastic about my photography and the open content movement and may be able to put in a good word for me. Diliff (talk) 21:34, 16 June 2014 (BST)
Approval
This grant application has been approved, to include the recommended donation and parking charge as discussed. If you would like any assistance from the office in contacting any of the cathedrals or other buildings, then please get in touch. In terms of reporting, please tag all resulting images with commons:Template:Supported by Wikimedia UK. I would also be looking for as many images as possible to be nominated for VI, QI, and FP on Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 14:03, 24 June 2014 (BST)