Engine room/2014

December board meeting

The minutes of the December board meeting are now available at Minutes 7Dec13 and Minutes 8Dec13. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 12:16, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Michael for posting these. It's a shame to see that WMUK has moved away from the good practice of specifying who voted which way on decisions made at the meeting; it's sad that this transparency has been lost. It's good to see that the transparency of the meeting reports will be improved, though. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:17, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Mike, on your first point, I think that this has been happening for several board meetings now. I don't recall why or how it started happening, though. Maybe there was an old board decision that I have forgotten, but if it turns out that procedure has just drifted without discussion then I will ask the board to have that discussion. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Has it? In past meetings the names have been omitted if it were unanimous, but recorded if anyone objected or abstained. E.g. see the 'Approval of 2012-13 Accounts' section of Minutes 13Jul13 or the 'AM potential CoI' section of Minutes_14Sep13 (of course, it's particularly important to clearly and publicly note who abstains when there's COI issues!). I can't spot a board decision on this issue in the recent minutes... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:36, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the earlier minutes, this does seem to have been drift rather than definite decision. I will bring this up at the next meeting, as we clearly do need to be consistent. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:02, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Mike Peel (talk) 16:30, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I share Mike P.'s concerns; and would also note that "there was an in camera discussion" should be expanded (for example "there was an in camera discussion of staff salaries"; "...of a potential financial donation". Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:17, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

+1, let's not let our the values drift such that we become just a boring, needlessly bureaucratic or opaque charity. --Fæ (talk) 17:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

The Engine room needs to look prettier

We need a nice Engine room picture to go on the top of this page. Can we get some suggestions going? We could post ideas here in a gallery. (ps the picture above is disqualified as it appears to show a wheelhouse not an engine room). MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:59, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

• Suggestions for images:

• 

  Suggestion 1

Does it matter if it is a U Boat? Philafrenzy (talk) 19:23, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

So long as I don't have to spend another weekend in a gigantic phallic object dressed as a German sailor. --Fæ (talk) 19:32, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Interesting, Aksel Berg started out as an officer on a submarine, and went on to become one of the pioneers of cybernetics! Leutha (talk) 20:52, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

And was imprisoned by Stalin for three years in the meantime, becoming a government minister immediately on release. Here, it normally works the other way round! Philafrenzy (talk) 22:39, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Format of the newsletter

Just received the latest newsletter. I know somebody in the office spent a long time doing this so I hope nobody is offended by my comments, but I think we can do a lot better, particularly in presentation. I printed a few pages as a pdf and uploaded them here. This is how it appears on screen in a typical widescreen laptop. I hope we can start a discussion about the appearance and content of the newsletter. Here are my initial thoughts:

• On the plus side, it's much better than it used to be!
• The appearance is clunky and amateurish and not in keeping with what you would expect from a national charity.
• The text wrapping around images is poorly formatted and the acres of white space either side of the content just looks weird.
• This does not look like any other newsletter I get from anywhere. That must mean something.
• It's boring, though that might just mean that we are boring.
• We don't need the message from Jon at the start, you lose half your readers there straight away.
• The content may now be too pared-down.
• It could include a list of upcoming events in the body of the message and some kind of index at the start.
• Should we pay to have properly designed member and donor newsletters prepared?
• I would be interested to know what newsletter donors get, the wrong one could be costing us a lot more than the cost of having a proper one designed.
• As this is the only regular communication with members, it seems a pity not to get it right.

Philafrenzy (talk) 00:02, 8 Janua ry 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this, I felt the last member's newsletter displayed poorly and seemed clunky. As the charity has several professionals employed full time in communications, the member's newsletter is a good chance to demonstrate these skills. --Fæ (talk) 07:45, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks Philafrenzy for your comments. I think that the member newsletter has come along way in a short space of time - considering that we didn't actually have one until fairly recently. There are some issues with the template which I know Katie is going to be looking at. But I can promise you that I have seen much, much worse. I'm sorry that you find the content boring. What would you suggest to make it more engaging to you? I quite like the mix, and other members have reacted positively, but getting more detailed feedback on what you think works, and doesn't, might be helpful. Also, what do you mean when you say that the content is too pared down? Do you mean in the email leads or the wiki version? It's a good idea to include events in the message and I'm sure Katie will note that for future editions. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Secondly, Fae - could you let me know where those "several professionals employed full time in communications" have been hiding please? Only I feel they aren't really pulling their weight and I'd quite like to have a word with them to see if they can take on a few of the things I don't have time for. If you see them, please pass on my contact details as I'm very keen to speak with them. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I've said this before in response to the members survey consultation where I responded to both Fae and Philafrenzy at great length. Well balanced feedback should include what doesn't work and what does. Do Philafrenzy and Fae have any positive comments? More importantly, beyond critique, can you offer more time to help improve the content again (not the template) to make it engaging? (I should note you are both past contributors I think (?) already so thanks for that!)

Katherine, could you please remove the implied criticism of Fae and myself in the paragraph immediately above. It's not appropriate as the initial post is intended to start a discussion on exactly the matter of what can be done better and includes several ideas on that subject. Thank you. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:03, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Now, as to the rest:

There was a competition to redesign the members newsletter banner in July which drew no responses.

The donors newsletter banner was professionally designed in 2012.

The members newsletter has been around for a year now. I believe Katy will be running a survey for feedback as a result. Perhaps it might be best to see if these are personal opinions or more widely reflected?

I don't think a differently designed template is bad idea providing it worked with Civi. Whether its worth doing should probably be based on the survey.

The donor newsletter design will continue to be led by testing results, surveys and feedback. I will be making some proposals in the new financial year (1st Feb) for how this is managed anyway so I'll have to ask you to hold onto your hats until then. Ta Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 11:23, 8 January 2014 (UTC).

I have responded to the above. My edits, and those of other contributors and employees, have been deleted and can be found in the page history for anyone interested. Speaking as a past Chair, I believe this is the first time that any Chairperson of this charity has chosen to exercise direct censorship on this website without there being an independent request to do so; if this action itself is worth discussing or reviewing, I suggest it is raised in a separate thread. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:11, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Action of the Chair to censor comments

I requested it. The The board and chief executive have a duty to protect the working environment of staff. Sjgknight (talk) 14:21, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Simon, thanks for your explanation (which I have broken out to its own thread). I never imagined that tampering with discussion threads on this wiki was a duty of the trustees, I am disappointed to see this is the choice now taken by the current trustees rather than leaving this to the CEO, which as I understood it when I was a trustee was where we agreed the fully delegated responsibility and authority for operational issues including personnel issues and complaints. As I recall, Katherine requested that an administrator look at removing a disguised apparent swearword from a comment by Philafrenzy, this would have been a perfectly reasonable action for an administrator to take. It did not require the Chair to be seen to intervene, and in my view neither did the entire dialogue, including comments from employees, require censorship or suppression.

Just to interject, can I make clear that this was an expression of exasperation about how things work here and not about any particular individual. I remain exasperated and frustrated. I may take up kick boxing. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not asking for the "critical" discussion to be restored, I am sure everyone is already tired of it, however I am concerned at seeing our current board of trustees using their authority to override or suppress free discussion of issues on this website or to be exercising their authority over such detailed operation issues that can be easily managed by volunteer administrators, or could be resolved through discussion with the people involved, if necessary by email, who would in all probability have removed their comments themselves if requested. If employees feel that comments are overly hostile, then the process should be that they avoid responding in any such thread and report this to the CEO for his action, rather than asking questions and personally engaging in the creation of a hostile environment.

The members of the charity should and must feel free to raise concerns with the operations of this charity. If we are unable to do so on this "Engine room" or anywhere else on this public wiki, then I suggest we advise members to express their concerns more freely by using the public email list wikimediauk-l, which employees or trustees do not have ultimate control over, even if at least one member of staff is an administrator there and I imagine he would wisely recuse from acting on any issue directly related to criticism of the operations of the charity.

Thanks for your help. --Fæ (talk) 14:38, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I confirm that members of the charity and volunteers are absolutely free to raise concerns with the operations of this charity, and that this page is the appropriate place for that to happen. I have deleted some text in compliance with the duty of the board, as employers, to protect the working conditions of individual staff of the charity. Neither I nor I hope anyone else will be continuing public discussion on this thread. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:50, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Your actions indicate that members are in fact not literally "absolutely free to raise concerns". Could you confirm that the board's duty as employers with regard to working conditions is fully delegated by the board of trustees to the CEO? If as the Chair and speaking on behalf of the board and responsible for your own actions here, you prefer not to answer any more questions on this topic, then it seems reasonable for members interested to continue this on the independent wikimediauk-l list. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:58, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Just to point out: I think this was accidentally removed and added it back, but Fæ has removed it again saying 'Please leave this to the Chair as his action on behalf of the board of trustees. My later comment I would like restored if these are.'. Over to you, User:MichaelMaggs. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:24, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Removing Richard N's comment was indeed a mistake, but he is content to leave things where they lie now. No further action needed. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Please note that this means that you (acting for the board of trustees and overriding the role of the Chief Executive) have chosen to restore employee comments made after volunteers had made responses, without restoring the comments from volunteers; what is left is a partial view of the conversation. I would prefer you to delete the whole conversation rather than misrepresenting me or philafrenzy in this way. If employees are free to express their views and opinions on this website, but not members of the charity, then this is no longer an open wiki. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:00, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Fæ, I've looked through the rest of what was deleted, and I can't see anything that replies to what Richard N. said. Maybe I'm missing something? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I did not mention replies to Richard N's comment. If you note the times of comments made that have been deleted by the Chair, comments by employees have been restored which were posted after other comments by volunteers that have now been deleted. Consequently the order of events is compromised and the discussion left on display is a misleading representation of events. To avoid misrepresentation any truncation should be to a fixed specific time with an explanation of why, or remove or restore the entire discussion; at the moment what we have is deliberate cherry picking by preferring comments made by employees and suppressing comments made by volunteers (of which only one comment has been highlighted as a possible problem with regard to "protect the working environment of staff", a role that by existing policy is the job of the Chief Executive to implement, not trustees). --Fæ (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Noted. I have re-deleted Richard's comment so that the thread is effectively now cut at a single point in time. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. As you have declined to answer my question with regard to the trustees acting in an operational role we previously delegated to the CEO, I presume this thread is effectively closed. --Fæ (talk) 18:44, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Key Performance Indicators for the Chief Executive

Could a member of the board of trustees please share with the members the top level Key Performance Indicators that the Chief Executive (and the charity) is measured against?

Now that Jon has been in the role for 3 years, it seems reasonable for the members to be able to see this published in a trend report spanning the duration of his employment. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 07:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The latest information on metrics can be found here. We will not be giving a running commentary before the strategy and metrics are open to public consultation in February, but I can say that the task force has met twice already and is meeting for a time this week. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Michael. The section you link to mentions metrics but not key performance indicators. It is not an automatic conclusion that the latter would ever be produced from the former. Could you confirm that Key Performance Indicators for the Chief Executive is an intended outcome, and that these will be published and tracked publicly so that the members of the charity can read them? By the way, as a past trustee I am fully aware that these were required as part of Jon's contract agreed three years ago and so are overdue. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The Water cooler needs to look prettier

We need a nice Water cooler picture to go on the top of this page the Water cooler. Can we get some suggestions going? We could post ideas here in a gallery. -MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

It's somewhat worrying that the WMUK Chief Exec has enough spare time to add pictures to nearly every section of this page! I'm sure there's much better things to be getting on with... :-( (Plus, they get in the way of leaving comments!) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 07:15, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate Mike's viewpoint. This is a discussion page, and unless the thread is directly connected to a particular image it is not normal on wikis to illustrate each thread as if they were a blog posts. MichaelMaggs' suggestion to put a photo at the top of the page is more in line with the way we see village pumps working on other projects. Although bandwidth is unlikely to me a massive problem for most readers or contributors, several photographs on a long page may discourage readers from accessing using mobile devices and could make the page unreadable or subject to time-outs if they are relying on a lower speed mobile connection. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think wiki thumb transclusions like this actually mean that most browsers will download the full size image file before rendering this page, so these images do add significantly to bandwidth and rendering times.

I am sure now Jon has been CE for 3 years, as per the lead item of the member's newsletter, he does not advice with regard to the norms of wikis. --Fæ (talk) 07:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

On the technical point, the images are automatically resized by MediaWiki - there's no downloading the full images. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:13, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I’m inclined to think that where there are obvious images it's no bad thing to include them just as we add images to Wikipedia articles (or indeed blog posts). It makes the page more attractive and is minimal work particularly given the images can be used on the pages/events/activities they refer to, if it was lots of extra work certainly that woudld be bad. Given the markup goes at the top of the sections I'm not convinced it gets in the way of leaving comments(?), useful to consider if there are other problems though? Incidentally this discussion should really be moved to the Engine room (i.e. I think the whole discussion around the water cooler image should be there). Sjgknight (talk) 08:30, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

My comment about it getting in the way was because the image here is after the first comment, so my comment was straight after it which was a bit confusing to me. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Ah fair enough, yes I agree that's to be avoided where possible (particularly given it'd be good to have noobs posting on the water cooler!). I think this is the only one on here though. Sjgknight (talk) 08:48, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Mike don't worry it only took a few minutes of time in gaps doing other things. As to the images I am really happy to take tech advice - we don't want people to be put off by download times. On the other hand we need our watercooler to be a busy and buzzing place that is attractive to come to. The thumbnails draw attention to the different subjects and when new things come up help draw attention to them. Our website is sooooooooooooooo boring. If it is to be a way of encouraging new volunteers (and members) it has to be a lot better and this is one tiny step to drag it into the 21st century. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 08:43, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I have withdrawn my post above after this complaint by MichaelMaggs who felt it was sarcastic. My feeling is that Jon's criticism of this site is that it is "sooooooooooooooo boring" and needs to be dragged into this century appears dismissive of Mike's point by trivializing it. I believe Mike and I do live in this century and have quite a strong awareness of modern technology, I doubt we could be considered terribly out of date compared to anyone else who contributes to the charity. Perhaps this aspect of his communication style could be improved? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:04, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, Jon's comments about the site are appropriate and allude to problems that anybody with a professional background in web usability should be able to recognise, despite your eagerness to trivialise or deny them. Yes you "do live in this century and have quite a strong awareness of modern technology" and it's interesting that that's your case for expertise. This is not to say that adding images to discussion pages is a solution. I agree with what you say below that accessibility is a problem - across all Wikimedia sites, not just this one - and should be a priority. Other points about the appeal and usability of the site deserve the charity's attention too, bearing in mind that the site doesn't exist for its own sake but to showcase our work and invite an ever-growing audience to take part in or support it. Calling for improvements to Jon's communication style is supremely ironic given your quite desperate contributions on this wiki. Take this well-intentioned advice from a friend: that you've lost perspective on what is or is not appropriate communication style. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I have made no case for my expertise, only responded to Jon Davies' dismissive style that I would not expect from the CEO of a national charity. Your comment about "quite desperate contributions" is not friendly; my friends do not deride me in public. --Fæ (talk) 15:59, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for moving this Michael, an unusual case hopefully there won't be too many of this type, but generally I think if people want to talk about the function and form of the water cooler it should go here. Sjgknight (talk) 13:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

• Suggestions for images:

• 

  Suggestion 1

• 

  Suggestion 2

Being "pretty" versus ensuring access for all contributors

I ran a short test a couple of hours ago by attempting to reply in the above discussion using an Android tablet. The mobile edit interface is not available (can this be fixed?) so the edit box's behaviour for this website is erratic and becomes unusable, in my experience, for anything other than very short sections. Pretty images can make access more difficult, particularly for mobile devices. I believe mobile access is important, I have often dropped timely replies in discussion on Commons from my tablet and sometimes my mobile phone, this has been particularly useful when stuck on a train and catching up with discussions. Though the recent actions to prettify discussions on this site with tangentially connected photographs may be liked by some, I suggest that we define some basic house-style guides for different types of pages on this wiki, and consider testing our accessibility from mobile devices and tablets to ensure that style guidelines are effective.

It is entirely possible, for example, for the main page of this site to use different css rules, or even display quite a different page, depending on the platform accessing it, and these options are worth considering. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fae, entirely agree this sounds sensible. From your post it sounds like the issue is the interface in general, not the newly added images, but I'm not sure that's what you mean? Regardless, accessibility for screen readers, etc. is also important and I don't know how we do on that front. Given articles, etc. have inline images there must be ways we can include images in these discussions (whether we want to or not) while still ensuring they're accessible no? I think the tech-committee may have a discussion about accessibility at some point. Sjgknight (talk) 15:00, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I would include images as an issue, as I mentioned in my comment. A house-style guide would cover when images were best used and when not, and may put limits to the types of image or other media file to be transcluded in certain situations. A discussion page may have an entirely different style to a proposal page or a static report. --Fæ (talk) 15:03, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

(EC) Hi Fae, I understand (I think) but I think what I was saying was that your current major issue was just flat out being able to access the mobile interface - not that the introduction of images had created a new problem on that front. Of course the broad point re: good practice for accessibility generally and mobile interfaces stands. Sjgknight (talk) 15:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

All good points. Thanks. Any thoughts from anyone as who who might have the willingness and expertise to start work on a page of recommendations? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:07, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I vaguely recall exactly the same discussion a year or more ago with regard to house styles. Mike Peel, our historian, can probably supply a link, or I think there was some preliminary work on the Office wiki by Stevie that you may want to review before starting a new exercise. As this is a closed wiki I do not have access to, I am only going by frail meat-memory.

By the way, I believe that house-styles for communications would normally be under the domain of the communications manager, which though he has changed his title to head of the department of External Relations, is probably still within his remit and would be better managed by him rather than being directed by unpaid volunteers. --Fæ (talk) 15:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Not that I can recall, I'm afraid. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 12:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Time is a bit malleable, the discussion could have been 3 years ago. Searching about finds Water_cooler/2012#House_style but no follow-on I can see. I am fairly convinced there is more somewhere on the office wiki, though it may have been part of our preparing terms of reference for some employees, certainly this came up more than once when I was interviewing applicants for the Communications Manager position. --Fæ (talk) 12:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Declarations for paid editing and related advocacy

In the light of the recent announcement by the Wikimedia Foundation that paid editing is not acceptable for employees, and the apparent swift termination of a long term employee, I believe it appropriate for the Board of Trustees of Wikimedia UK to agree a policy at the next board meeting to require employees, contractors and trustees to publicly declare any current or past paid editing activities, or related unpaid advocacy that may represent a potential conflict of interest.

The risk to the charity by allowing confidential declarations limited to the board in this area, or to "overlook" past paid editing (even if some years ago) is that a current board member, employee or contractor may be perceived to be deliberately misleading the Wikimedia community. Were this to be exposed then Wikimedia UK may suffer reputational damage if seen to be supporting procedures that protect this secrecy.

Considering the recent resignation of an Arbcom member, after avoiding a public declaration of off-wiki accounts where they were both publicly and non-publicly posting about matters related to Wikimedia projects, I would hope that the board would require employees and contractors to similarly interpret "related advocacy" as applying to "secret" accounts elsewhere whenever they can be seen to relate to Wikimedia projects or Wikimedia UK matters. The board of trustees will already be aware that such undeclared accounts exist.

Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Can you rewrite the first paragraph without assuming that readers already know what you're talking about? Thanks in advance, MartinPoulter (talk) 15:02, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

How about starting with "A long term employee of the WMF has quickly left their employment after it was revealed that they have been editing Wikipedia on behalf of paying clients, a public statement has been issued by the WMF here." If this is still unclear, it might be better to ask on the related thread on wikimediauk-l.

You may find the recent discussion on the Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard or today's article on The Daily Dot helpful for context too. --Fæ (talk) 15:50, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that Fae. I personally wouldn't want to promise that such a policy could be delivered and agreed upon by the next board meeting. But it is a risk the board needs to consider and it should certainly be discussed. Seddon (talk) 22:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking it seriously. Rather than attempting a full policy, which I agree may take a while if community consultation and a check with employment law is needed, I suggest that the board discuss the couple of basic principles, perhaps as a short resolution statement, along with understanding the WMF's position at that time. With the principles agreed, policy can then be updated as necessary (such as COI policy, trustee code and employment policies). It would be useful from the member's perspective if this could remain as open a process as possible.

Lastly, there is no need for WMUK to have identical policies to the WMF, indeed our independent approach and needs for this governance issue may result in major differences in how paid editing declarations are managed and the circumstances in which they are considered legitimate; for example we may fund projects where contractors support the project, are declared paid editors, and this is part of their valued skill sets. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I made a reply on the UK email list, and I'd like to add to it here. To get started, I'm a contractor for WMUK, and tomorrow will be beginning fresh contract work on the VLE. So I'm within the scope of what Fæ is raising here. None of my edits on Wikipedia and the other projects has been for pay or other consideration.

Here is what I posted to the list:

/begins

On the details of the Sarah Stierch affair, which has been in the Independent for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Stierch

"Long-term employee" seems not quite right. She had a one-year fellowship in 2012. The Independent report said she was engaged in an evaluation project for editathons, which is true enough. I don't know the full extent of her recent portfolio of WMF activities. Stierch, as the WP article makes clear, is a significant activist over a range of things, and working for the WMF has been part of it. As usual, Wikipedia cannot be relied on for all information one might wish to have.

No doubt the WMUK Board needs to think this through. The implication that the "net" should be cast wide to look for COI, of those involved in the WMUK in any fashion, of course has different sides: a prudential approach is one of them.

As a coauthor of the original (2006) COI guideline on enWP, I have always been interested in the distinctions between "potential conflict of interest" (which is in a sense part of the human condition), perceptions of COI, and concrete "conflict of interest" in the guideline sense. The last of these relates rather precisely to the actual circumstance that someone is editing the project content in such a way as to prioritise outside interests over the best interests of the project. E.g. advocacy where there should be none.

/ends

To move further into the issue: I think there is a potential downside whatever is done, i.e. this is not a situation that can be dealt with simply by process. Let me explain my reasoning on that first. There are possibly unintended consequences of the approach Fæ is proposing, which you could call "clean hands".

And this seems evident in relation to "in residence" positions. One extreme consequence comes from reasoning this way: Wikimedians in residence are typically paid, and are typically editing, so they are paid editors. Now we don't accept that as a case for exclusion of the "in residence" concept, given that Wikimedians in residence are generally exemplary members of the community, of high reputation from the internal point of view, and will in any case know much better than most people what kind of editing is best for Wikipedia and the other projects.

Further, we probably don't accept that WMUK should distance itself from the "in residence" concept, or the people involved. So if they are also applying for staff and contractor positions at WMUK, such positions are going to be a plus on the CV. So far, so good.

But I noticed something about the tender document for the JISC Ambassador position, which is a kind of "in residence with roving brief" position, hence the name. The Ambassador was supposed to coach JISC staff in editing, but not to edit on JISC's behalf themself. The tender being a joint WMUK/JISC effort, this clearly represents a conscious slant in the direction of "clean hands".

I disagree with what was done there. If we actually want to avoid editing that is not only paid, but is advocacy on behalf of (say) an institution, this is the wrong way to go about it. As I have said, the generic "in residence" position in an institution ought to be held by a trusted community member; and it makes no sense to delegate editing about the institution to the staff of the institution, who will have only a fraction of the ideas of what is suitable editing, and far less a stake in the outcome being better for Wikimedia content. Anyone "in residence" will have a reputation to lose if they overstep the line and do advocacy, and I know of one who made it clear at interview that there is such a line.

To sum up: let us concentrate on the outcomes for the projects. We know perfectly well what is to be avoided: the "foreign body" in the community which can exist if there are editors actively cutting across basic content policies. That is why the issue is heated. It will not help, though, if too much finger pointing leads the chapter in the UK to overcompensate. Which in the detailed drafting in the JISC case seems to me to have already happened. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

January seems to show a decline in the number of events

If we examine Events/Archive just for January events, the heyday of Wikimedia UK appears to have been back in 2010-2012 when we doubled the number of events we were delivering each year, though this may be a "January" phenomenon. We have more employees now and claim to have more active volunteers, but the numbers have been static or going down rather than up, let alone doubling. So what do others think these numbers tell us about the organization's growth and performance over the last 3 years, compared to the 3 years before that? In comparison December shows a similar pattern, doubling each year until 2012 when it becomes static. In the last 3 years the budget for the charity has quadrupled, but this does not seem to have resulted in any proportionate growth in this potential Key Performance Indicator.

The table below is a sample and different samples may give significant variation. For a useful Key Performance Indicator for the charity this would need to be turned into a full trend chart of quantity of external events going back over the last 5 years showing the seasonal pattern. Once internal facing events such as board meetings and probably wikimeets are removed, the remaining numbers will be far more meaningful. It's about an hour or two of work to set up and then about 15 minutes a month to maintain as a report for the board of trustees. --Fæ (talk) 08:13, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Year	No. of events in January	No. of events in December
2009	1	1
2010	3	4
2011	6	8
2012	12	14
2013	11	14
2014	8	-

This is definitely an interesting statistic to measure (and it should be measured!), but bear in mind that it's not a measure of what's been achieved, but what has been done. It almost doesn't matter how many events are run if they all achieve a lot, e.g. in terms of number of people impacted by the events, number of new editors, number of existing editors retained due to the event, amount of content produced on the sites as a result of the events, etc. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 06:31, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that counting events is not great, but it is available when hardly any long term external-facing metrics are being published. This comes down to our continued poor and inconsistent measurement of outcomes (as in the purpose of any charity is the new outcomes it delivers to beneficiaries, in our case the benefit to public knowledge, not how many jobs we create, how many partners we have, how many lunches we can get with politicians, or how many articles we can get in the national press). It still amazes me that after more than 3 years of having a full time CEO, he and the board of trustees has yet to agree a set of firm and credible key performance indicators, or any firm performance targets. This makes the job of reviewing the CEO's performance almost entirely subjective and a complex matter of personal judgement of management competence rather than independent measurement. For example, though the FDC bid contains a number of measurable commitments, there is no sense that these are tied to measurement of performance of the charity or the CEO, indeed a number of these measurable commitments have yet to have any official reports. --Fæ (talk) 12:23, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

an interesting and valid debate and we are working hard to establish clear metrics for what we do. Staff and trustees listen carefully to these discussions. One point of correction; I have been CEO for a little over two years not three and whatever my personal merits both outside consultants have commented on how rapidly and well WMUK developed during that period. So let's remember to celebrate our achievements. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 10:41, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Fortunately events have been reported publicly for the last 6 years, it does not require any further hard work to report them as they are already reported. As a Key Performance Indicator (rather than a simple metric) reporting the trend of quantity of external-facing events and their benefits as measurable outcomes for Wikimedia projects is one of the most basic I can imagine. This is a KPI that is cheap to report and effective for trustees to monitor operations, and does not need the clock to be reset to zero, so this means that this year's performance can easily be compared to 2013, 2012, 2011...

Jon, I made absolutely no comment on your "personal merits", re-framing my comment above in this way confuses a criticism of process with a person. Members should be free to highlight issues with the charity's performance or how the CEO's performance can be measured in a more meaningful and transparent way, without it being turned into a defensive argument of personalities. --Fæ (talk) 11:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

1st June is Global Sharing Day

File:I love sharing at republica 13.jpg

Discussion resulting from initial post at Water cooler#1st June is Global Sharing Day

This seems to be a day devoted to reciprocity of asset sharing (car shares, food sharing), rather than preserving the sum of human knowledge. Isn't getting into bed with these people the same as becoming affiliated with Freecycle? I can understand why piggybacking on the co-incidental title of the day might seem attractive from a PR perspective, but this feels oddly tangential to Wikimedia UK's mission. --Fæ (talk) 18:32, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more. Knowledge sharing is one of the most important types of sharing there is. If it wasn't then the Wikimedia projects and movement wouldn't have such importance and would have so many people involved. Making the case for free knowledge is one of the most useful things we can do. It can hardly be called tangential. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 18:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I did not say that making the case for free knowledge is tangential; I did not serve as a trustee, or help set this charity up in the first place without believing in making the case for free knowledge. Please note my sentence with regard to "getting into bed". I was going by the self description on Benita Matofska's website where it is also clear that Compare and Share is a limited company (not a charity) who no doubt would benefit from adding the Wikimedia brand name value to their portfolio. --Fæ (talk) 19:08, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The implication being that we shouldn't work with anyone that isn't a charity? This is a global initiative with global participation. It costs nothing for Wikimedia UK to be involved. Why shouldn't sharing knowledge be seen on a par with sharing food or other assets? We talk a lot about member numbers and volunteer numbers. This is the kind of initiative that can take our work to a wider audience that is already interested in the sharing of "assets" - an audience that is more likely to share our aims and values and therefore more likely to become participants in the future. If other people benefit from that - great. Let's make everyone happy. It's worth noting also that it's not that long ago Wikimedia UK was a limited company. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 09:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

(Just for reference, WMUK is still a Limited company Stevie, Limited by guarantee.) Philafrenzy (talk) 18:17, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Just saw this Philafrenzy, thanks for that. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 09:41, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

With a "use of Limited" exemption just to be absolutely clear. By the way, the home page shouldn't be saying "registered in England and Wales", that is a common misunderstanding. It should be just "registered in England". To be fair, it is a very common mistake and a totally harmless one. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:51, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

I believe that 'England and Wales' is correct, as both share a common legal and charity registration system. Scotland, on the other hand, has a separate legal system with separate registrations. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 22:53, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

They do Michael and the certificate of incorporation will say England & Wales but you can and should just say Registered in England No. or Registered in Wales No. since a company can only have one registered address at one time. Anyway, it is not worth paying for legal advice over. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:17, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Philafrenzy. Companies_House#England_and_Wales seems to disagree with you - the "registered in" bit is about which legal area you are registered as a charity in, not where the registered address is. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:58, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

That's because they are fed up answering questions about it so it easier to say put E & W, and there is a joint register and common legal system for both as has been said, but the law on this particular matter is a 2008 Statutory Instrument No. 495 titled The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008 which just says at S.7: "Every company shall disclose the particulars set out in paragraph (2) .... the part of the United Kingdom in which the company is registered". E & W is not a "part", it is two parts. England is a part. I rest my case M'Lud. But as I say, not important. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:22, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Further, shouldn't the statement simply read "Wikimedia UK is a company registered in England" Or is the term "Charitable Company" one defined in law? I note the capitalisation but the charitable status is mentioned on the next line. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:55, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

They appear to be company number 07494345. It's not clear whether they are for- or non-profit - if they are for-profit then that's definitely something to be wary of, particularly if working with them ends up getting media coverage. But tapping into their community and encouraging them to contribute to the Wikimedia projects would make a lot of sense. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:46, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

The strategy of the Compare and Share private company appears to be to create a viral marketing campaign verging on being a pyramid scheme ("we're asking each partner to bring a network / another partner on board"). They are pushing for partners (as they say on their website) who have a number 1 objective of "Promote yourself"; it is free to become a partner, you just send in your company logo, so this does not seem particularly meaningful. Anyone can create a "National Day" to support a marketing campaign, for example Marmite encouraged a National Marmite Day. Before launching Wikimedia UK events or partnering with an organization, Wikimedia UK should do basic background checks and be able to answer these questions and understand fully what the Wikimedia brand is supporting.

Lastly these are the types of questions (is this a charity? why would we partner with them?) that members should not only be free to ask, but encouraged to raise. At the moment I do not feel members have the least bit of encouragement to raise pertinent questions on this wiki, quite the opposite. --Fæ (talk) 10:51, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I note that all discussion has been moved from the Water cooler (without any attempt at consensus to do so), but not Stevie's announcement there promoting "Global Sharing Day". While there is a governance issue under active discussion, with unresolved directly relevant questions, please move the notice from the Water cooler to be located with the thread, or move this discussion back where it was. Positivity does not mean cherry picking parts of discussions. --Fæ (talk) 11:25, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a link between the two. This isn't about positivity, it's about splitting different types of discussion. Cheers Sjgknight (talk) 11:33, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

No this is cherry picking. Stevie has created a notice promoting "Global Sharing Day", the question raised is whether we should do so. Splitting the two just hides this relevant question. The stated new purpose of the Water cooler is "This is a place to let you know what is happening and to discuss our external projects and activities" - this does not include promoting events for other organizations. Stevie's notice does not fit that description as we have not committed to supporting such an event or joining Compare and Share's marketing programme by becoming a "partner". If the whole discussion thread is to stay on this page, then by the same logic, Stevie's notice should be in the Engine room not on the Water cooler.

Simon, I would like the board of trustees to be alerted to this governance issue, which now appears to be being diffused rather than managed. Wikimedia UK should not lend the Wikimedia brand name to a viral marketing campaign without doing basic background checks such as whether someone is making bags of money out of it somewhere. --Fæ (talk) 11:48, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

"Compareandshare.com is brought to you by Compare and Share Ltd., the leading provider of technology-based solutions for asset-sharing that enables consumers and companies to access and share the world’s under-used assets. Alongside compareandshare.com, we license, build and customise asset-sharing solutions for companies and organizations helping them maximise their unused assets by making it simple for them to connect surplus resources with need." Source: http://www.compareandshare.com/about-us/

My local Tesco also has surplus resources that meet my needs, at least they are open that I am going to have to pay. Philafrenzy (talk) 13:53, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Based on that description, if Wikimedia UK wants to support "resource sharing", then I suggest we do so independently and produce a Wikimedia sponsored website, forum and on-line database for the public to share resources in competition with Compare and Share Ltd. Frankly, none of it looks that technically challenging and it is something that Wikimedia UK could host on its own server. I would say an £100,000 grant would do it and at least *we* would be a charity transparently governing the entire scheme from end to end, with no future advertising and no selling of parallel commercial services piggy-backing on the created brand value. However this would mean a significant change to our charitable mission and scope as originally presented to the Charity Commission, that's up to the board of trustees if they want to fundamentally re-write this charity or stick to the mission of preserving all human knowledge, which already seems a pretty big mission. --Fæ (talk) 17:21, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I have emailed Compare and Share (they do not give a phone number on their website) asking to confirm whether they are a for-profit or not and whether an annual report is available for me to examine. Considering the blog posts on their website which mentions "pitching to a number of different corporates, investors and entrepreneurs", it would be hard to believe that investors do not expect to make a profit. --Fæ (talk) 11:23, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The co-founder Nick Tong has written back to me and confirmed that Compare and Share are a for-profit company. The lack of clear responses, and silence in the two days since, seems to make it reasonable for members to assume that this was unknown by Wikimedia UK operations before proposing that the charity support the event on the Water cooler. A rationale was given that "it costs nothing" for Wikimedia UK to join this marketing campaign, I suggest that the charity asks more questions than how much it costs to be assured that such partnerships and events remain within the values and mission of the charity, certainly before putting the Wikimedia brand name up for grabs. --Fæ (talk) 17:25, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I've never heard of Compare and Share but as this was put up for discussion on wiki and some pretty serious concerns have been raised about it I'd be inclined not to associate WMUK with it unless they be put to rest. Judging from what people have been able to find out so far there is at least a significant risk that our name will be used, in effect, as some kind of endorsement for a scheme which does not seem to have much in common with our own goals. I'm glad Fae an Philaphrenzy have raised these points. Mccapra (talk) 17:06, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I have nothing against capitalism (that would be hypocritical) it's the least worst system that has so far been devised for distributing resources, however, if I am being sold to I like people to be honest about it and this particular scheme seems a little vague about where the money is going. It's not a charity and they are not doing it for nothing are they? If the day becomes established and the financial side becomes more transparent then we could look at it again next year. Philafrenzy (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Note, it took 6 days to get something official on this, when the facts could have been confirmed within the first 20 minutes with a phone call or email. These sorts of checks should be built in before making public statements of support that are hard to back down from; not rely on me as an unpaid amateur detective playing the bad guy. --Fæ (talk) 17:47, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree that if the Water Cooler is now a form of official announcement page rather than a discussion page then things need to be looked at critically first and contentious things should maybe start on this page. I now proudly sport a grey beard and have been on the receiving end of every kind of dodgy sales pitch you can imagine. Philafrenzy (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Recruitment - Discussion removed from Water_cooler#Open_Coalition_Project_Co-ordinator

The job itself

Hi Stevie. That’s the first I’ve heard about this co-operation - has anything been posted about this before on this wiki or the mailing list? Why are you choosing to hire someone rather than to seek volunteers to do some of this work? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:25, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mike, I've replied to the email but will reply here, too. This has been discussed a few times and the collaboration has been developing for a few months. John Cummings and I led a session at MozFest in October, along with Open Knowledge Foundation, Mozilla and Creative Commons, about this very thing. To address the point about volunteers, there's lots to do and I'd encourage anyone interested in taking part as a volunteer to get involved. One of the key things the project will be doing is bringing together lots of different volunteer communities. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 17:37, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I must admit that when I first read this job description it seemed to me that these were all things that we should already be doing in line with being about the whole open knowledge project, not just Wikipedia. Does this role represent a delegation in some way of the responsibilities of the Chief Exec or is it fundamentally a different job? I see also that it is, like a number of other posts, a part time one. I am starting to be concerned that we are creating a portfolio of part time posts that provide a subsistence income for several people when we should be employing people full time. Inevitably some of these jobs, including recent In Residence appointments, take up a lot more time than the holder is being paid for, spilling into evenings and weekends for which no extra payment is made. The creation of part time posts also severely limits who can apply as most people need a full time income. I hope we are not inadvertently exploiting people by paying them for one or two days when they will actually be working three or four days. Could we alternatively offer two profiles for each job, a longer term part time job and a shorter term full time job, thus creating a wider pool of applicants? Philafrenzy (talk) 18:12, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Some good reflections. Stevie has responded about the job itself I would like to respond to your more general observations. So far we have found that there is n appetite for part time posts. The on;y two posts we have struggled to get shortlists for were actually a full time post and an almost full time post. With Wikimedians in Residence we are still grappling with what works best. We are starting a review shortly of the Wikimedians in Residence programme to see what lessons have been learned and how we can adjust it in the future, should we agree it is worthwhile of course. It is interesting that two posts have been extended. Perhaps that says something about how long they need to be. It is however horses for courses. A major institution can easily accommodate someone and provide enough to do whereas a small institution may prefer something a lot more light touch. I hope you will participate in the review. As to the working evenings and weekends - welcome to the voluntary sector! This is a real issue particularly for WMUK staff who have come from the community and can find themselves 'wikiing' 24/7. Rest assured we have no master plan to casualise and exploit the workforce hence when we have had intern posts we have paid living wage for instance.Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 09:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments Jon. I don't suggest any sort of deliberate bias in the matter by WMUK, but I don't see why we can't, where feasible, give an alternative for every post. A one day per week post could be offered with a 10 week full time option, thus making it an option for someone to live in London full time for that period. People sometimes have just a day or two spare each week, other times they may need a full time income. I do agree that the longer the engagement with the institution the better but by only or mainly offering part time posts we are effectively restricting them to the retired, the wealthy or those that enjoy eating lots of pasta. Has anyone with a young family and a mortgage ever applied for any of the part time posts? There is also a clear risk of exploitation by making the working hours too short for the scale of the institution. I am thinking of a recent appointment in particular. In order to avoid accidentally exploiting the goodwill of our members, and to ensure a wide pool of applicants, let's offer more flexibility in this area please and ensure the amount of work being paid for is closely linked to the amount of work actually being done. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:58, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

I think the job itself looks like a good and worthwhile thing. But I echo Philafrenzy's concerns about the proliferation of part-time posts. Realistically, you limit our recruiting pool to those already based in London and possibly the nearer parts of the Home Counties. With the obscene cost of commuting to or living in the capital, I don't think anybody could realistically relocate or commute take up a part-time, six-month post and so applicants from elsewhere in the country are likely to be put off. This is bad for the charity, as it only further skews its activities towards London and restricts its recruiting pool, and it's likely to frustrate people (including me) who might have considered applying, only to find that it's simply not viable because I don't live in London. As a member and a volunteer, I already feel like I'm at a serious disadvantage by being base outside London; the proliferation of short-term, part-time, London-based staff posts seems to confirm that the charity is moving ever closer to being "Wikimedia London". Harry Mitchell (talk) 17:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments Harry. The part time roles issue has been addressed above by Jon but just as a clarification, the role description says the location is London / Flexible (remote working possible). There's no need for the successful candidate to necessarily be based in London or work from London. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 18:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Absolutely. We try to be flexible about location. The education part time post is based in Yorkshire for instance. I don't think it is right to call two extra posts 'a proliferation' of posts. The second one advertised at the moment wil be in Wales and is in reality not our post but we are hiring the person on behalf of the Pathways project as they do not have the right infrastructure to do it easily. Otherwise we have a p/t accountant who needs to be in London for the work but actually lives quite a way away, a p/t GLAM person (Londonish) and this contract post we are discussing which as Stevie says could be elsewhere. When it comes to Wikimedians in Residence we have worked hard to make sure they are not all on London. As to PF's point about how we structure the posts the reality is that we start at the other end of the process, i.e. what does this job need to achieve and then work backwards to find as much flexibility as possible. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 10:03, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

It's correct to work back from the job, but unless there is a strong reason to offer only full time or only part time, will the chapter offer an option on that in the future and allow flexibility as to the number of days worked in a part time post? Also you haven't directly addressed my other concern Jon that some posts may be more time consuming than the holder is actually being paid for. Just because somebody is prepared to do twice as much as they are paid for doesn't mean that we should let them, even if it is good for the charity's bank balance. It will be sufficient to know that you and the board are aware of this risk. Philafrenzy (talk) 19:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't want to reply on behalf of Jon, but I can address the points in respect of this specific role. My initial thinking was for the position to be full time for three months. When I discussed this with some of the groups that we're working with there was a general consensus that a part time position over a longer period would lead to better and more sustainable results. On reflection I'm inclined to agree. The closer relationships and collaborations that we want to achieve are better served over a longer period of time rather than a shorter burst of more intense activity. The point that staff shouldn't do more work than they are paid for is, of course, a valid one. I know for a fact that those paid employees of Wikimedia UK that have line management responsibility do their best to make sure that staff don't end up doing lots of unpaid overtime. I'm line managed by Jon and know from experience he does his best to be strict on this (even if I don't always listen). I intend to be equally strict when the successful applicant for this position comes on board. I hope this is helpful but I'm sure Jon will comment on this, too. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 19:28, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:44, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply Stevie. You said by email 'The board agreed to fund the project at the December board meeting'. I must be missing something - can you point me to where in the minutes this decision is recorded please? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:52, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Can't we discuss anything on the water cooler nowadays? I'm starting to feel like I'm barred from commenting there nowadays. :-( Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:14, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

The Water cooler, once for free exchange of ideas and questions, seems to have become only for approved announcements, and supporting statements of positivity, not for questions or open discussion. Not anything like how we expected transparent and open values to be implemented when we agreed the mission of the charity just a few years ago. Mike, I apologise for working against you with regard to keeping the wikimediauk-l email list independent of the charity, I now appreciate how important this might be as an independent free channel for discussion; such as being a place where one might be allowed to be critical of the CEO. --Fæ (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Just to note: I wasn't arguing for wikimediauk-l to be independent, I was arguing for it to be used by both the charity and the community, not just one or the other (and to avoid having a duplicate list set up just for WMUK members). But that's a separate issue from this one. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 07:31, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Stevie for the link to Joint Mozfest session. I thought that was just for planning a joint session at a meeting, though, and not starting a full co-operation? I can't see anything there about hiring a joint coordinator, nor anything else about it on this wiki. I'd really like to see open discussion take place here before such positions are being recruited, e.g. so that volunteers can express whether they would like to be coordinated, or to see whether the work could be done voluntarily rather than via a paid position. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 07:35, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

(unindent) Hi Mike and Philafrenzy. Mike, the minute you are looking for is here. Philafrenzy, I'm not sure what you mean by delegating the responsibilities of the chief exec in this context. Could you clarify please? To answer the question I “think” you may be asking, bringing together groups that are working in the same area, or similar areas, as Wikimedia UK is clearly pretty important. Throughout the work that has been happening over the last few months it has become clear to all organisations involved that having someone who can co-ordinate this activity would be extremely useful. With some volunteer support I wrote up the project proposal and presented this to the board as an appendix to my quarterly report. The board agreed to support the project and obviously I am very pleased, as are the people I've been working with at Creative Commons and Open Knowledge Foundation. These groups are also looking at the possibility of providing extension funding to continue the project after the initial period. I'm proud of Wikimedia UK for showing leadership in this area, particularly as everyone I've spoken to from other organisations tends to comment along the lines of: "This is excellent, we've been thinking along these lines for ages, why haven't we done this sooner?" With regards to part-time roles and people working too much, please be assured that I will be making sure that the successful applicant doesn't work more than their allotted hours (although this isn't a problem limited to part-time staff). The wider point about part time vs full time roles is much more complicated and I don't really feel qualified to answer that. Thank you. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:30, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the link, Stevie. I've just dropped Alastair an email to suggest that section be clarified to make it clear that it is talking about the coordinator role, and not any other project. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 11:37, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Budget and salary

Now the members have access to the Commons report that recommended this new position to the board, created and published today here, it can be seen that a budget of £10k was put forward to cover 3 months. This included £6.5k for salary. As Mike has highlighted, the minutes of 7th December 2013, say nothing about what the board of trustees agreed apart from "they were in favour of the proposal". Certainly the details of the Comms report do not match the job that has now been publicly announced. Could a trustee or the CEO please confirm exactly what the board of trustees agreed on 7th December and ensure both the budget and associated project plan are promptly published? --Fæ (talk) 12:22, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Meaning of this recruitment to the WMF grant / FDC proposal

My understanding of m:Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round1/WMUK/Proposal_form#Current_entity_staff_and_long-term_contractors was that Wikimedia UK made a firm public commitment to freeze staff numbers for 2014. Considering that only a few months weeks have passed and that Stevie has confirmed that the Charity was in discussions as far back as October 2013, both the board of trustees and the CEO must have been aware this was not the operational strategy that would be followed. Note that the grant did not have final approval by the WMF board of trustees until the end of December 2013. This allowed plenty of time for a public amendment.

Why was the FDC bid presented with false commitments, and why are the charity's funding commitments being broken so early in 2014 (only 17 days since the WMF approved the grant) without returning any of the funds? --Fæ (talk) 17:40, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Rest assured the FDC are aware, Anasuya was actually present at the Board meeting where this exciting decision was made. We like to be flexible and this was a great opportunity completely in line with our charitable objectives. AGF Fae Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 17:58, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not assuming bad faith, that is a worn out rebuttal to questions. The FDC proposal is a public record, the only public statement available to me since the proposal was published is this post presenting a done deal. I do not have access to your in-camera meetings, nor do other members of the charity. According to your statement, Anasuya and the FDC was aware of this, and presumably approved of the deviation from the FDC commitment; but failed to say anything publicly. I am surprised that the FDC was not more transparent about how it accepted this concession in December and informed the WMF board in advance of their approval of the proposal, which only occurred two three weeks after the WMUK board meeting you mention. The FDC has a duty to remain transparent, this behaviour appears to fail to be transparent. A public email or note on meta from Anasuya, officially representing the FDC, explaining how the FDC empowered Anasuya to represent the FDC in December and how they kept the WMF BoT informed before finalizing the grant, would be useful for the record. --Fæ (talk) 18:03, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I have emailed the FDC to ask for a clarification of these agreements.

I remain unclear on the following points:

1. Whether Anasuya was representing the FDC on 7th December 2013 as appears implied above by Jon Davies' statement "rest assured the FDC are aware".
2. Whether the FDC, WMUK or Anasuya took steps to inform the WMF Board of Trustees between 7th December and 31st December that the commitments of the FDC bid would not be complied with.
3. How failures against measurable commitments for performance, financial plans or resource plans made in the FDC proposal are to be publicly reported, may be ignored or renegotiated in non-public meetings/discussions.

--Fæ (talk) 21:28, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks to a helpful trustee for pointing out that in the Christmas rush we had not uploaded Stevie's Comms report to the UK WIKI. Stevie needed to remove something before it could become public but selfishly went on holiday just after the board meeting. When he returned staff who deal with such things, including myself, went on holiday for Christmas. We apologise to the community who could not see this really interesting report until today and to Stevie who has achieved a couple of big wins for the chapter and needed to have his accomplishments made more public. I hope this will answer a few of Fae's questions. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 08:57, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

New reporting processes will be in place for the next and subsequent board meetings that will ensure reports are not held back by accident. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:21, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

As my reply here was being edited by Michael Maggs, I have removed it entirely rather than leaving a cherry-picked fragment against my name.

After this unwelcome and unnecessary act of censorship, please consider this thread at an end as I have no expectation of a meaningful reply to my direct questions. --Fæ (talk) 13:28, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fae, thanks for checking in on this. As we've shared with you on email as well, the annual plan grants supported by the FDC are general support and unrestricted funds - so there is an understanding that each organisation receiving these funds has the autonomy to respond to both opportunities and challenges that are not necessarily in their original plan. Organisations do need to keep the FDC and WMF staff informed, and they do so through their quarterly reports, and/or through any form of formal correspondence (our grant agreements require that any significant variance from plan be shared with the WMF grantmaking team. This then gets conveyed to our committees; in this case, the FDC). The FDC is particularly - and understandably - concerned about full time positions, as they have long term liability implications for organisations, if funding plans should change.

In this instance, it's certainly correct that I was present when the position of the coordinator was discussed at the Board meeting (both Frank Schulenburg and I were there as invited observers; we were present as WMF heads of Programs and Grantmaking, respectively, to be able to learn more of WMUK's current context and future plans), and it was clear from the discussions that this was a short term contract position that was to be hired in the new year (i.e. through the new plan). It was equally clear that the Board of WMUK felt this was an important task that needed some immediate, if bounded, attention. WMUK will share this with the FDC more formally in its first report - in which we ask how plans have changed since the FDC allocations were approved - and I have also asked Jon to offer more details of the position to the FDC to clarify any questions they may have. I have informally shared with the FDC feedback from our visit to WMUK.

Overall, I do believe that WMUK is doing its best to proceed with caution, given the FDC's guidance over the past couple of years. I certainly hope its strategy will prove effective and have good impact on the Wikimedia community and its projects. Thanks, ASengupta (WMF) (talk) 16:22, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for replying publicly here Anasuya, and your expressions of positive support and hopes for the UK chapter.

Based on an absence of assurance otherwise, it is reasonable to conclude from the correspondence on this wiki and my correspondence to the FDC which reiterated these direct questions, that there was no report or notification for the Wikimedia Foundation in advance of 31st December 2013 when Wikimedia UK's grant was authorized based on the FDC recommended proposal. Wikimedia UK was planning a new employed position a couple of months before this date, and the FDC were made aware of it at least by the 7th December 2013. This gave several weeks in advance of the official grant authorization, for Wikimedia UK to notify the WMF that the proposal may have been misleading in stating that there was no plan to increase the number of employees during 2014.

It may well be that the FDC has no specific responsibility to do this on behalf of the UK chapter.

This is a separate issue from how reporting changes to plan are supposed to work after the grant has been awarded. --Fæ (talk) 17:46, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Censorship

My comment has been censored without contacting me in advance, I believe wholly unnecessary, here. Apparently, even highlighting when the CEO is being blatantly sarcastic is now a good enough reason for suppression of the concerns of members.

When I finish my correspondence with the FDC, I'm afraid I no longer trust this wiki to make a public statement that would not be subject to later tampering or censorship. I shall instead first provide a summary on the wikimediauk-l email list where the CEO does not have ultimate control and my text will not be re-written without my permission. --Fæ (talk) 13:28, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Warning

I give fair warning that any editor posting personal attacks on staff anywhere on the charity's website may find themselves blocked from further editing without notice. Such behaviour will simply not be tolerated, whether from you, Fae, or from anybody else. All current editors except you are perfectly able to distinguish between engagement with the charity - even critical engagement - which is most welcome, and personal attacks against individuals. Bundling an engagement with the charity in the same posting as a personal attack does not protect the attack from deletion, nor the editor from being blocked. To avoid what you call 'tampering or censorship' editors are expected to comply with normal standards of civility. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:06, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Michael, I believe this boils down to you deciding to interpret Jon's comment "Stevie ... selfishly went on holiday" as a joke of some sort, whilst I read it as sarcastic and explained how that sarcasm appeared to me, I doubt that I would be so unusual as to be the only person that would read Jon's comment as sarcastic given it was in response to a serious question of governance. Considering that a couple of weeks ago I reasonably struck a comment of mine because you thought it would read as sarcasm, your escalation by deleting my comments without discussion and then giving a warning appears more than a little uneven. At the end of the day, you and Jon are free to run this wiki as you see fit, however you might consider laying out the process for warnings and blocking volunteers, even previous trustees or Chairs of the charity such as myself from contributing here in more detail, including the appeals procedure. Presumably to be fair, any procedure would apply equally to employees and be capable of handling complaints.

If I complain that Jon's comment "Stevie ... selfishly went on holiday" was sarcastic, how am I supposed to do that without pointing it out and risking counter allegations of a personal attack? --Fæ (talk) 18:22, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, "false and political" was a personal attack and uncalled for. You're articulate enough to make the point you were trying to make without attacking Jon. But on a broader note, you can't repeatedly undermine the chief executive of a charity on said charity's website and expect no comeback. Even in the Wikimedia world, there are standards of decorum that people are expected to adhere to. Harry Mitchell (talk) 17:40, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

No, you have given a partial quote. In response to Jon's sarcastic comment, I said "appeared" to be so, as indeed it did. This was not an accusation about Jon's person but about his statement/apology.

I certainly agree with you about criticising the CEO on this website. Consider that a lesson learned. --Fæ (talk) 17:53, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't intending to distort your quote by taking it out of context, just to point out the part that people are likely to object to. Reasonable people may differ, but I think most people would agree that calling a statement "false and political" is not in keeping with the standards of decorum for a forum such as this. We're all passionate people, and sometimes we disagree (sometimes quite strongly), but we're all working towards (more-or-less) the same ultimate goal, so let's try to remember that when we're disagreeing with each other. Harry Mitchell (talk) 14:52, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Please keep the word "appeared" in the quote thanks. It is the difference between legitimate comment and defamation. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:20, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Mentioned in The New York Times

I have been described in the NYT as a "professional misanthrope" by the subject of an article that I nominated for deletion. I am sure a few people here will agree. If I am a professional, shouldn't I get paid or is the work it's own reward? Philafrenzy (talk) 23:34, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

I think that makes you notable. Your own article awaits.--MichaelMaggs (talk) 06:35, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

You should add it to your linkedin profile - you were mentioned in the New York Times on account of your knowledge of "Postage Stamps and Postage History of Seychelles". That probably makes you a world expert! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:10, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I am too misanthropic to have a Linked In profile Richard! Philafrenzy (talk) 11:24, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Registering in Scotland?

Hi all. A while back WMUK changed the Articles so that it could be registered as a charity in Scotland. Has this been done? I can't find WMUK by searching the OSCR register. There's info about the process at [1]. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:02, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

On a slight tangent (partly because I don't personally know the answer to the question) how would any registration of Wikimedia UK in Scotland be affected by a "Yes" vote in the upcoming Scottish independence referendum? Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 09:10, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Richard S may correct me but an amendment to our Mem and Arts is pending for the next AGM which I think unlocks this. This was certainly what I was led to believe when last discussed. Do you have a specific worry about this? Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 09:15, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

The resolution was passed at the AGM back in 2012. I don't have any specific worry - Philafrenzy's comments above just reminded me about this. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

There was, IIRC, a discussion about this at a recent board meeting which has led to an action on me to make sure that this was voted on a second time at the AGM. I don't remember the details but I will ask the Board to direct their attention to this post. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 10:55, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

To quote from an email I've received from Greyham today, "[It is] not really to “re-vote” but to acknowledge that for due compliance with charity law, as CC consent was needed before the new Article could come into effect. That consent was received by email in response to the work Jon and I did on filing amended Articles with the CC, and so all that is needed is a Members’ Special Resolution confirming Art.30 on that basis."

In effect, Greyham is saying that we needed (technically) to check with the Charity Commission before voting on Article 30. Now that we've checked (and updated the Commission), we need to 'reconfirm' the Article. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 13:27, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Richard. That doesn't sound right, though. The change made at the 2012 AGM isn't a regulated alteration, so it shouldn't need CC's permission before being made; CC should just need to be informed after the fact. See [2] for more info. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:28, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Richard can I suggest that we both do a trawl back through Board minutes to familiarise ourselves with the reasons why we thought this needed to come back to an AGM? As far as I can see without going off and spending quite a bit of time on it, the wording of the 2012 AGM motion is sound and the voting process at the AGM. I think Mike is right to say that we don't need Charity Commission permission before we vote on whether we want to make the change to our Articles, but we do need permission from before before we can enact a change.Mccapra (talk) 19:50, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Re-reading the resolution passed by the 2012 AGM I think it could be argued that it was faulty in that is appears to suggest that the members of the charity may alter their articles in the light of the resolution without seeking permission from the Charity Commission, when this is not the case. In fact however the proposed change was agreed and the permission of the Charity Commission was sought (as I understand) so I'm not clear myself what it is that we are taking back to the next AGM, other than a note of what has been done to put the resolution into effect. I don't see that a new resolution is required for anything.Mccapra (talk) 19:57, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Alastair. Just to reiterate: as far as I can tell this is not a change that needs prior consent of the Charities Commission, as it doesn't fall into the scope of the three regulated alteration categories; it just needs them to be kept informed after the fact. It would be worth looking back at the legal advice that we received at the time (I think from Stone King), which was suggesting that we make this change. (I proposed a while back to have a page on the office wiki with an archive of all the legal advice WMUK had paid for, but I'm not sure whether that ever got populated by the staff?) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 06:58, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mike! I have been talking with Greyham about this behind the scenes. I'm still trying to track down the emails that refer to this, but the Charity Commission's view was that Charity Commission consent was needed before the new Article could come into effect. That consent was received by email in response to the work Jon and Greyham did on filing amended Articles with the CC, and so all that is needed is a Members' Special Resolution confirming Art. 30 on that basis. It's not a 're-vote' so much as a 'confirmation'... does that make sense? I will let you know when I track down the emails. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 15:48, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Richard. :-) It sounds like their emails disagree with their website, or at least my understanding of their website, then - so it makes sense to wait until you find the emails. I don't think there's much of a difference between 're-vote' vs 'confirmation', as what would happen if for some reason they weren't confirmed? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:55, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I've sent you the text of the email we received. Can't post it online as it's private correspondence... Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 16:32, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

The Charity Commission says 'Most England and Welsh charities will need our consent to make the necessary changes to their governing documents so that they can register as charities with OSCR. There is a standard form of wording for both objects and dissolution clauses that we have agreed with OSCR. Charities should apply for our consent and then make any changes in line with the procedures laid out in their governing documents (see our publication Changing your Charities Governing Document CC36). Once the amendments have been made, registration with OSCR can be completed, unless there are other issues affecting the application - which OSCR will advise on.' (see http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/detailed-guidance/protecting-your-charity/charities-working-internationally/english-and-welsh-charities-working-in-scotland/)

This means that the changes in our Articles cannot be put into effect without permission from the Commission, but it doesn't mean that we need prior permission from the Commission before we can ask members to vote on whether they want to make the changes. My understanding is that the AGM voted to make the changes, we then sought permission from the CC and then enacted them. If this understanding is correct there is nothing for members now to vote on. I am very unhappy with the idea of a vote being taken at an AGM to confirm an earlier decision. A decision is a decision and we can't open up some sort of distinction between decisions that have been confirmed and decisions that have not been confirmed. If we are certain that some sort of mistake was made in the process of making this change, we should declare it at the AGM, but this is a statement for information and not a matter on which members should be called on to vote. Mccapra (talk) 17:48, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Richard for sending me a copy of the email. The relevant part of it is that CC believe that this is a change in 'the manner in which funds are applied', and that this is a regulated change. That doesn't appear to agree with the law here, which is 'any alteration of any provision of its articles of association directing the application of property of the company on its dissolution'. However, the page that Alastair linked to links to standard text to use, and what Stone King recommended we add is the standard dissolution phrase (even though CC haven't written it in such a way to imply that is the case). So it does indeed appear to fall into the category of a regulated change. I'm annoyed that Stone King didn't point this out at the time they suggested the change.

That means that the previous vote "is ineffective if such [prior written] consent [of the Commission] has not been obtained." (I'd suggest clearly saying that the last resolution was 'ineffective' rather than talking about a revote or reconfirmation, as that's the wording used in the law.) As such, it should probably be removed from the articles as they appear on this site, and essentially a new vote of members is needed in order to formally add it into the articles now the CC has authorised the change. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:27, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

yes now that i understand the background I agree. A new vote is needed. Mccapra (talk) 22:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanking users for edits

Is there a way for us to implement here the system that exists on Commons whereby we can thank someone for an edit by clicking on an "(undo | thank)" link in the View History page? It doesn't seem to be a gadget, so far as I can see. Is it a feature of a later MediaWiki version than we have on our site? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:56, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Installing the relevant extension looks like something for our developers. I'll open a bug on Bugzilla. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 15:01, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you.--MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:31, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Feedback on the Main Page

In response to Stevie's email about the main page, can I suggest a few tweaks to its text?

• "They are written and curated by thousands of volunteers, and are supported by voluntary donations, just like Wikimedia UK." - this is not strictly true, as WMUK sadly isn't (yet) written or curated by thousands are volunteers. Also, the aim here should be the Wikimedia projects being supported by voluntary donations *through* WMUK rather than making a distinction between donations to the projects and donations to WMUK! So perhaps rephrase to something like "They are written and curated by thousands of volunteers. They are also supported by voluntary donations through Wikimedia UK and other chapters and the Wikimedia Foundation."
• "Wikimedia UK is the registered charity" - that should probably mention "in the United Kingdom" or something similar, as other Wikimedia organisations are recognised as charities.
• "this year we are hosting Wikimania" - has it now been clearly set out that WMUK is hosting Wikimania? The last time I was looking at this, there was a draft agreement being prepared between WMUK and the individuals that bid for Wikimania, but it was still being drafted - has an agreement now been set out and signed? If so, please could a copy be shared on-wiki?
• The new volunteer/join us/donate buttons are very nice. :-) Can I suggest adding a bit more horizontal padding between the button edges and the text, so that they look a bit less squashed, though?
• Having 'volunteers' in bold in the 'Get Involved' section looks a bit odd, as it's the only unlinked and non-title bit of bold text on the page. Perhaps it could be turned into a link?

(I also made a formatting/punctuation tweak earlier - hope that was OK!)

It might be worth thinking about doing a more thorough overhaul of the page at some point. It's been developed in a bit of an ad-hoc way over the last few years, and it's starting to show (e.g. with the triple language/logo bar/advert at the top of the page, immediately followed by the 'About Wikimedia UK' bar). Perhaps a mini-competition could be run to encourage volunteers to come up with new concepts for what the page could contain and how it could be laid out?

Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:09, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

The nice big Volunteer button goes to the Volunteering Portal which has loads of text but no clear direction at all as to what to do next. A new visitor would really struggle to go beyond that page, as there is no clear pointer to 'what do I do now'? There could at the very least be a blindingly obvious button to send the Charity an email to get more information. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

It's being worked on today. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 08:39, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Katie! --MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:51, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Keep the comments coming, all useful, - We are working in the background to make the front page (and the whole UK Wiki) as good as possible in the longer term. The circumstances this weekend have meant that we have had to put together very quickly something as an experiment. If what we are hoping comes off, comes off, then we will learn a lot. We have to be circumspect about it as making it public would probably mean it would be significantly less likely to happen. Sorry to be so cryptic but that is the way it is. With luck we will be praising one special volunteer to the roof on Monday, if not we will still have got the nce new buttons. Have a good weekend Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 09:21, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

in reference to Mike's third bullet point above I think we need to say WMUK is a charity registered in England and Wales. We are not OSCR registered and I don't think the term UK Charity is correct. Can someone check with the charity commission advice on this please? Thanks Mccapra (talk) 13:15, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I have also asked above whether the term Charitable Company, which we have capitalised, is correct? Is that a separate thing provided for in law. We mention the charitable status on the next line. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:36, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for all of these comments. I'll make some small changes that hopefully take the above into account. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:48, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Just one point about Mike's comment on chapters and the WMF etc. That will be meaningless to newcomers, who this is really aimed at. We can think about coming up with something more detailed later on if we need to. But I do take the point on board. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:54, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Actually, scratch that. I've made a minor clarification there which I think helps Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 14:02, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Stevie - the changes you've made look good. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:10, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

No problem, thank you for your constructive comments!Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 14:13, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

The Donate and Join Us buttons on the main page direct to respective pages that have different (out of date) side bar layouts on the left. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:34, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Michael, not sure why that is, other than they don't sit on our wiki. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 16:06, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

The blog is on Wordpress, with a skin to make it look like our website. While the side bar on the wiki has been revised over time, the blog hasn't been kept up to date. At the moment I'm looking into updating the blog. It's a minor thing, but one worth doing for consistency. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 15:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I couldn't work out how to get the headings to quite match, but the links are right at least. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

You should be able to copy-paste the code from the left-hand menu of this wiki to the wordpress template, and it should work - the blog uses CSS from enwp (something that should actually be improved at some point). Let me know if you want any help getting this working - although I no longer have access to this so I can't do it directly atm... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:55, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Stephen Fry

Nice work on that, everyone who made it happen. Is a Facebook post coming on it or is anything else planned to maximise publicity? Philafrenzy (talk) 18:30, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

+1 Good work. Just as Andy has done, I encourage others to think about dropping celebs an email (or a tweet) so they can supply missing photos or audio; your success rate might only be 25% (based on my past experience), and it's made a bit complex having to explain we need a CC-BY release, but always worth a punt.

If this does generate interest, could we also use this as an opportunity to encourage audio and video more generally on Commons? We are particularly poor when it comes to free performances of classic music (or out-of-copyright music), so anyone with an interest in amateur performances or folk music should be encouraged to borrow the chapter's recording kit and have a go. We are also weak when it comes to sound "effects" such as different car engines, cat meowing, market traders calling etc. These may seem odd things to collect, but they can be great for bringing articles to life.

By the way, if you have large collections of free audio or video, drop me or Andy an email. We can arrange batch conversions to free formats for uploading to Commons. This could easily become a pragmatic "help me service" the chapter might be the point of contact for. --Fæ (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello both. In terms of publicity we're waiting to see if Stephen tweets it. We're hopeful that he will, in which case we could be looking at a spike of, literally, hundreds of thousands of hits an hour. Work has taken place behind the scenes (thanks to Tom Morton) to make sure that our infrastructure can handle it. The real credit for all of this goes to Andy Mabbett, who has been working on this for a long time. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 18:53, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Here's hoping. Who has the next highest number of followers in Britain? Jeremy Clarkson? Do we have his voice? Philafrenzy (talk) 18:59, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I've had a look at some of the figures which are surprisingly tricky to come by. Mostly, the top ten comprises of members of boy band One Direction, singer Jessie J, BBC Breaking news, Stephen Fry and comedian Ricky Gervais. The good news is that Stephen Fry did indeed tweet about the project here. I'd like to say congratulations to Andy Mabbett for all his work on this project. Tom Morton did a great job on the tech side of things and Katie Chan worked very hard to get the volunteer portal in to a good shape today. All around, an excellent piece of collaborative working that brought together volunteers and staff in a very productive way. More of these collaborations, please! Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 21:39, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, excellent work. There must be a strong correlation between high numbers of Twitter followers and Wikipedia notability so this could certainly happen again. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:00, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

• http://thenextweb.com/media/2014/01/25/wikipedia-adding-celebrity-voices-biography-pages-preserve-celebrity-voices-future-generations/#!tm2WR
• http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/01/26/stephen-fry-helps-launch-wikipedias-wikivip-voice-recording-service
• http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/01/wikipedias-adding-voice-recordings-of-famous-people/

Philafrenzy (talk) 12:37, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the links Philafrenzy. I'm collating a report of all of the coverage I can find - lots of people pinging back to our blog post - so will be sure to include these. Some interim figures you may be interested in for now - as of this moment the tracking link has been followed 2,841 times (and climbing steadily), and Stephen's tweet has received over 100 retweets and over 100 favourites. Not sure how that will translate in terms of fundraising, membership and volunteering, but I've had two separate people write to me to get involved in the voices project. Good going so far. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 12:52, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Any evidence yet of membership applications as a result of this? Philafrenzy (talk) 10:26, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I haven't seen any data on this yet - the alerts don't come to me - but I will look into it and see what I can find. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 10:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello again. I've aggregated as much of the coverage as I could find and have added it here. Please feel free to add anything I've missed! Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:58, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I think you have found most of it! Hoping, however, that we garner more than publicity from the effort. Not sure what we should expect and over what time frame, given the ephemeral nature of a Tweet. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:21, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Completely agree and I'm really looking forward to seeing the figures. I'm completely in the dark about what is reasonable to expect from an increase in traffic to our site, but traffic that isn't familiar with is. Once we get to look at the numbers it will certainly inform the way we approach something like this in the future for recruitment (volunteers and members) and fundraising. I'd certainly welcome any input on those areas once we know what we're working with. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:33, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's far too early for the analysis, but we don't need the publicity as such, we need more members, donors and volunteers. Those will be the indicators where everyone will be looking for a spike in the graph. Philafrenzy (talk) 13:54, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Have there been any membership applications or new volunteers as a result of this yet? (I know it's early) Philafrenzy (talk) 19:25, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Not sure about membership - I know there have been some problems with our database but I shall ask Katherine to see if she can shed any light on the question. In terms of volunteers, there have been four or five people getting in touch about how to get involved with the Wiki VIP project which is promising. Andy has advised me that the link to the homepage is still being retweeted (hence reverting the homepage to show the relevant blog post again). Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 10:58, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

This could have quite a long tail as the same original material is copied over and over again by different outlets. Shows just how the "news" really works. All to our benefit of course. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:58, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, I've spoken with Katherine about this and it appears that we didn't receive any new membership applications that were a direct result of this activity (at least to this point). While there were two larger gifts during the last week, it appears they are also unrelated to the Stephen Fry post. If this is the case, given that the tracking link has been followed 3,986 times so far, I would suggest that this makes quite a compelling case for a major overhaul of our public facing website / wiki. As a community we've had this conversation before but this presents evidence that it should be put back on the agenda. Not a single attributable conversion from almost 4,000 visits is really pretty poor and if we're serious about increasing membership and volunteer numbers we should take notice and see it as a spur to action. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 12:32, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Visitors simply don't understand at first glance (and that's all they give it) who we are and what we do and why they should bother to get involved, or even if it is relevant to them. They don't understand Wikipedia, and they understand us even less. Everyone knows what an animal or children's charity is and it has an immediate emotional pull, but an "open knowledge" charity? Philafrenzy (talk) 12:47, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's definitely a part of the problem - but a problem to which there must be a solution. Working together I'm sure we can find a solution that produces good results. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 12:52, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Fry twitter followers who click on a related link and read it for an average time of 3 seconds are incredibly random (in terms of marketing, people clicking on the link are have no pre-qualification, such as relevant self-selection). The conversion of random surfers likely to be interested in voices of celebrities through to paying £5 or donating to a charity they have never heard of before is unsurprisingly un-measurably minuscule. I believe this has been said on the water cooler by other volunteers in the past, and it has been our past experience with transient social media "trending", but a serious article or editorial in the weekend edition of The Times or The Observer that tells the story of one of our events and their benefits, is far, far, more likely to attract a relevant and educated segment of the British public, thereby providing meaningful numbers of donors, participants in our future events and long term volunteers than a tweet that is popular for a day. By the way, this matches my past experience as a marketing director when I invested some serious money in different advertising channels... nothing worked better than personal contact at events and conferences and in terms of cost per "conversion" it is the most effective "sales" channel.

To test any sales campaign, I strongly recommend not linking to the front page of this website; it is not a targeted sales brochure and should not become just a means of converting internet surfers into donors. A campaign specific landing page would be far more effective that directly hooks into any campaign and provides a targeted explanation of what this charity does and how it benefits the reader based on the nature of the campaign and how prospective donors/volunteers have been qualified. Personally, I see no problem in linking to a webpage separate from this wiki for that purpose and other chapters have done precisely this for similar reasons. --Fæ (talk) 13:34, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

That sounds sensible and I certainly feel that we ought to do more to make our name known. The chapter has a very low profile, and the publicity that it has had has generally been negative. That may have created a feeling that we should "keep our head down" for a while. Fae's suggestion of an article in a quality paper describing a specific project is a good one. Also, I may have missed it but I don't see Jon ever quoted in the media. Our projects are essentially intellectual so they need to have a human angle added in order to create a compelling proposition and to make them newsworthy. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:04, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

(Unindent for ease of reading) So is this representing something of a sea change? I remember when I suggested a couple of months ago that we could make great use of an overlay website as an accompaniment to the wiki it was met with a mixture of incredulity, anger and outrage ;-) Let's be careful how we approach this, though. I can't see any potential future where we spend money on advertising channels (although if there was some way we could contact university students en masse easily and cheaply. I do like the idea of a specific campaign, though. Much of what we have been doing for a long time has involved plenty of tail-chasing. We're becoming more structured now which allows for more planned work and campaigning falls under this. The chapter is gaining visibility, bit by bit. The work on the open coalition is a good part of that, as is the series of residencies with high-profile cultural and educational institutions. Our contributions to the Free Knowledge Advocacy Group EU will act in a similar way (and I have a volunteer helping me with this). Wikimania represents a great opportunity, and there's the possibility of an evening event at the Science Museum, too - notes on this were published earlier in the week. With regards to Jon being quoted in the media, he's been quoted a fairly decent amount in news stories about us. Sometimes, a lack of consensus (or sometimes, being completely honest, my own fear of community responses) prevents me from feeling entirely confident of making the chapter more available for comment on relevant news stories. Philafrenzy, as you rightly observe, the fact the chapter received some pretty strong negative coverage over a lengthy period also contributed to this. On the subject of getting stories into the quality nationals, well - if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. That being said, we haven't done too badly, particularly the last couple of months, with the Guardian and Telegraph. There are some feature ideas being developed (such as teaching people to edit). I also have a good working relationship with a journalist from one of the leading quality nationals who is very interested in case studies involving the use of Wikipedia in higher education (especially Oxbridge). I hope all of this is useful. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 14:30, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I think we need to be clear what our message is before we can communicate it properly, but using case studies with a strong human interest angle is most likely to make a good story. Are we seeking to differentiate ourselves from WMF or Wikipedia and describe our own separate charitable mission? Can we sum up our message in one or two pithy sentences? Philafrenzy (talk) 14:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

We have Mission. --Fæ (talk) 15:04, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

As can be reviewed in the archives, what was objectionable to many volunteers was changing parts of the function of this website from an open wiki to a closed one controlled by the CEO and his employees. A website, with very few pages, acting as a "brochure" for the charity, rather than a news service and project hub for members and volunteers (which is what this wiki is for), is little different from publishing the Annual report on-line as a pdf. The trick is to ensure that it is implemented in keeping with our open volunteer-centric values. Just because some webpages are not wikis, does not mean that they cannot be developed and reviewed on-wiki. If the outcomes are achieved using an operational plan and consultation processes truly meeting our shared values of staying volunteer-centric, open, transparent and focused on the mission of the charity, then there can be no "incredulity, anger and outrage". --Fæ (talk) 15:04, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Community consultation - Financial and Expenses procedures

Some changes in WMUK's financial procedures are being proposed to reflect reflect the 2013-14 internal management changes, with the setting up of two Board Committees (GovCom and ARC), the introduction of the QFMR system and also the Board’s Scheme of Delegation of day-to-day management to the CEO.

Community feedback is invited on the two pages below. This consultation will close at midnight on Saturday 1st February 2014.

• Financial Policy & Procedures (proposed)
• Expense procedures (proposed)

Please make suggestions/comments on the respective talk pages. Thank you. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Michael for posting these changes for community consultation. Mike Peel (talk) 17:55, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Why does this need a "community consultation"? It's just rearranging the deckchairs ever so slightly. I wonder about the collective wisdom of the board if it (thinks it) has nothing better to do than fiddle at the edges of procedures that work fine on paper. Harry Mitchell (talk) 17:36, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Harry you're conflating two issues, 1) is whether we need to make these changes ("fiddle at the edges") 2) is whether we need a consultation. On 1, we're working towards good governance and operations practice, this is part of that, the board is working hard. On 2, I'm sure some will agree with you, and others will not. Being open to comments before adopting is low cost. Thanks Sjgknight (talk) 13:37, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with an open process where members can see and comment on the changes; it's a good thing even when not of interest to the majority. Gradual small improvements of Financial procedures is something that I would expect the CEO to work on and then make positive recommendations to the board, rather than eating up a lot of trustee (or other unpaid volunteer) time. The only aspect here that may require members' attention is whether the trustees are doing a good thing by increasingly delegating their authority to the CEO.

Harry, If you feel the board should prioritize or give more oxygen to something else (when I was the chair, I attempted in instil the good board management practice of realistically doing something about a maximum of 5 top risks at one time), then it might be better to point out the risk you feel they are failing to address or openly discuss.

Of the things clamouring for attention, I would say that a decline/lack of growth in membership or active volunteer numbers (compared to 3 years ago), should remain top of the agenda; both for trustees and member discussion. It remains unclear to me how the trustees have been holding the CEO to account for that key performance indicator, which is on the record as being an issue for the last 3 years but never turned into a firm, reported, basic, performance target.

• Volunteers/numbers - last published number October 2013.
• Membership/Numbers - no growth for the last 4 months.

--Fæ (talk) 14:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fæ, apologies for the tardiness of my reply. I won't point to any one issues in particular, because someone will inevitably address that specific issue at the expense of the broader point (and I think that's human nature, not an implication of mal-intent, just for the record). My concern is more that the board is busying itself by rearranging the deckchairs than it is about any particular issue. There are plenty of things I can think of that I'd be looking at first, and I'm not much of a strategic thinker, so if I could think of something better to do, there must be lots of things that would seem, to a humble volunteer, to be far more important than renaming policies to "procedures". Harry Mitchell (talk) 18:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Harry you seem to have deleted Michael's post (which I'm reposting below). Re: the broader point, we very much encourage any comments you have on the strategy consultation below. Sjgknight (talk) 22:24, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Apologies to Michael; that was unintentional. I'm sure you say that with nothing but sincerity, but the reality is that I'd be wasting my breath—any comments I've offered on such things in the past have been ignored, or at best have been met with a very short response and a promise of a more substantial response that never seems to materialise, so for now, I can think of more productive uses of my time. Harry Mitchell (talk) 13:33, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

+1, understandable. --Fæ (talk) 16:32, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

This consultation has now closed. Thank you for your comments, everyone. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:54, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Trademark agreement

Hi all. With the new Trademark policy in the process of being approved by the WMF, I was reminded about the trademark agreement issue from a few years ago. The new policy says 'These groups enter into agreements with the Wikimedia Foundation, which allow them to use certain Wikimedia marks.' Does WMUK have such a trademark agreement at the moment? I seem to recall that we had an informal letter of understanding from Mike Godwin (WMF legal counsel before Geoff) so that we could make limited use of the Wikipedia trademark, but I can't recall a trademark agreement being set out after that. It might be worth WMUK checking with Geoff to find out what the plans are here, and to provide early comments on any draft agreement that might exist at the moment. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:14, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Use of the Wikimedia logo is covered by the Chapter Agreement. I'll leave it for others to comment on the use of other marks. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 10:44, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

A side point, here. I am speaking to the WMF legal team by phone to try to ensure that the new TM policy allows users to make much freer use of the WMF trademarks in conjunction with QRpedia codes. They are broadly sympathetic. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:48, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Any news on this? Does WMUK have an agreement in place with the WMF to use the Wikimedia project logos (aside from the Wikimedia logo as per Katie's comment), or will it soon? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:57, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I am almost certain that use of Wikimedia project logos is covered in the chapter's agreement. But, to put your mind at rest, I will write specifically to the WMF legal team to request confirmation. I'll note any reply I receive here. Thank you. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 10:26, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Stevie, unless Mike has some specific concerns about the trademark clauses of the public chapter agreement I don't think you need to do that. Mike: are you just looking for a pointer to Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/Chapter_agreement or did you have something specific in mind? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:15, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

have you read 5.2 of the chapters agreement? Trademarks apart from the Wikimedia logo are specifically excluded from being covered in that agreement - a separate one is needed in order for the chapter to use e.g. the Wikipedia logo. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 11:21, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello again. I have received confirmation from Geoff Brigham of the legal team at the Wikimedia Foundation. I quote: "Correct. The chapter agreement is the trademark agreement for wmuk." Mike, I hope this puts you at ease but thanks for asking the question. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 14:02, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

It's the trademark agreement for the 'Wikimedia' trademark and logo, but it's explicitly not for the other trademarks. I suggest you ask Geoff again and quote point 5.2 specifically. Feel free to loop me into the email discussion if that would be helpful. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:15, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Just to follow this up. Mike, it appears you are indeed correct. WMF legal team are happy to prepare a separate agreement for use of project logos and they are doing so. I'll update with any progress as it happens. Thank you for this. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:18, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Stevie. :-) Mike Peel (talk) 11:55, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Community consultation - Strategic Plan 2014-2019

	Strategy
Strategy Overview of strategy Strategic and operational models Vision, values and mission Strategic goals Operational WMUK activities and volunteers Strategy monitoring plan KPI tracking results 2014 Activity Plan

As most members and active volunteers will know, the WMUK board and staff have been working on a draft of our Strategic Plan 2014-2019. At the board meeting last December, a plan was put in place to complete the work, with full community consultation, in good time for a final version to be approved at the board meeting in March 2014.

We are now at the stage of asking for community feedback, and your comments are invited on each of the draft strategy pages listed below. The pages flow through, from top level vision and mission down to thoughts on detailed KPIs and annual targets, and they will make most sense if read in the order listed.

(The pages could certainly do with some formatting work to make them easier to read as a whole, and to jump between them. If anyone has time, a navbox would be nice! If no volunteer is able to help out, the task might have to devolve on the staff at some future time). Done. Did it myself! --MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:05, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

• Overview of strategic plan 2014-2019
• Strategic and operational models
• Vision, values and mission (proposed)
• Strategic goals
• Measures and targets

Below this, the staff will have a series of day-to-day working spreadsheets with short-term plans, individual event targets etc, as well as links to individual staff objectives.

Please bear in mind when reading these documents that they set out the thoughts and proposals of the board and staff, and that these may well change and evolve as a result of community feedback. Nothing has yet been finally decided.

This consultation introduces quite a number of new strategic elements and ideas. Now is your chance to say, for example, what you think about clarifying the scope of the the charity's mission by adopting the Open Definition of Free Knowledge/Free Content as used by the Open Knowledge Foundation, rather than rolling our own with variable mixtures of the concepts 'open', 'free', 'freely-licensed' and so on.

Other suggestions that you will see in the new pages include the idea of having annual externally-run surveys, particularly to provide hard information on difficult-to-measure impacts such as reputation, and a class of volunteers called Friends (separate from our members and the community of less-formally-related volunteers with whom we work). The Friends list could grow much more rapidly than our members' list, and could be tapped as a 'volunteer resource' when we need someone with particular skills, or in a particular area, etc. Such Friends lists are used very successfully by many charities.

This consultation will close at midnight on 28th February 2014.

Please make suggestions/comments on the respective talk pages. General feedback and comments on the consultation process itself should go to the General feedback page. Thank you. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

A new definitions page has been added for comment: WMUK activities and volunteers. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:29, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Community consultation on this draft has now closed. A finalised strategic plan incorporating the consultation feedback will be considered by the board at its meeting in March 2014. Thank you to all who contributed. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:04, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

See the announcement below: #Announcing Wikimedia UK's new five year strategy. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:04, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

2013-14 Annual Review

Hello everyone, it's time for us to begin working on Wikimedia UK's 2013-14 Annual Review. I've started sketching out some plans for the booklet and would love for people to get involved. If you're interested please do take a look here and leave comments or suggestions. Thank you! Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Liability insurance for OTRS volunteers

Does WMUK's liability insurance for volunteers cover project activities where we may be corresponding through OTRS and to what extent?

For example, I sometimes add tickets to images to confirm copyright status on Commons and these may be in support of WMUK projects. I am particularly interested in scenarios with civil suits for damages against our volunteers from correspondents who may feel they have been treated badly or misrepresented or civil suits by the WMF against an OTRS volunteer. It would be useful to have considered responses based on the terms of the current insurance policy (which is no longer available publicly, certainly I do not have a copy) and potentially an official statement from the charity, rather than informal or speculative replies.

I have raised a suggestion for a risk warning notice at m:Talk:OTRS/Volunteering#Liability_and_risk_warning_for_prospective_volunteers.

Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:24, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK only ever intended to have insurances for volunteers while they are "undertaking activities, officially, on behalf of Wikimedia UK". Acting as a volunteer on WMF OTRS is not, has not, and will never be considered as acting on behalf of WMUK. This extend to Wikimedia project activities in general such as editing Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons etc. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 13:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the official clarification. There seems a slight contradiction in the statement as a volunteers can and do take part in projects officially funded by Wikimedia UK which are advised to use OTRS as a process for confirming copyright releases, there are many examples and this is a normal part of our official training courses for volunteers. If all WMF OTRS activities are not and have never been covered by our insurance, then this is a definite change in official policy since we first purchased the insurance when I was a trustee. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 13:25, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fæ. My memory agrees with Katie's. However, if it were part of a WMUK activity then I'd have thought that part of it would be covered, e.g. if someone raised an issue with being advised to contact OTRS then that would be covered, but if someone had been involved on OTRS in processing the release and applying it to the projects then they wouldn't be covered as that couldn't be counted as an action on behalf of WMUK. It would be good to see a clarifying wiki page setting out what counts as a WMUK activity (particularly when talking about 'officially') and what doesn't, though. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:31, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I will discuss this with our insurers when I am back at work next week. In the meantime, and without documents to hand, my recollection is that volunteering for the WMF as part of the Volunteer response team (OTRS) is not and never has been covered by our insurance. Mike is right that this needs clarification, but in the meantime if anyone has any concerns about whether they are covered for a particular activity, they should email myself or Jon and we'll check. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 22:32, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Great, thanks, it would be good to have a clear official statement. The documents always used to be on the office wiki as well as previously available to all volunteers on this wiki. I would recommend keeping them on the office wiki so that they are easy to find for anyone with access and so that any trustee, contractor, staff member or others with access can answer questions about insurance for volunteers on our projects.

As an active volunteer can I have a copy of the current insurance policy as it relates to my activities please? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I will discuss this with our insurers too. Last time I spoke with them, they advised against circulating copies of our full policies, especially online - we wouldn't be able to ensure they were kept securely. I will try and get an answer for you. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 18:19, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I was asked to remove a statement that I had professional indemnity insurance from my website, even though it was a legal requirement for me and everyone else in the same profession to hold it. I think the insurers here are probably more worried that publicising the cover will encourage claims somehow, rather than anything else. Why would the policy details need to be kept secure really? Philafrenzy (talk) 00:56, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Insurance details do not need to be kept secure from the insured parties, in fact I believe there is a legal requirement on an insurance company to provide access to the policy to the insured (i.e. volunteers for Wikimedia UK). My impression from this discussion is that Wikimedia UK has refused to provide a copy of the insurance policy, or access to it, in response to a request from an insured party. As the legal definition of insurance is a contract between the insured and the insurer, if the insurer is now requiring Wikimedia UK to keep the contract secret from the insured, then the contract can be considered invalid.

If someone were to provide me with the name of the insurance company and the policy number, then I am happy to offer to spend my time giving them a phonecall (as an insured party) and provide some factual feedback here, rather than wasting any more employee time on this bureaucracy/game of Chinese whispers. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 06:52, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, as I said earlier, "I will discuss this with our insurers when I am back at work". I am now back at work, have dealt with the most urgent tasks, and can focus on requests from volunteers: I have also received a reply from the insurers. I must impress upon you the need for patience, this sort of thing can't be hurried.

You will be pleased to know that I have spoken to the insurers and that although they have reservations about making the policy public, I have discussed this with Jon, and we have agreed that the risk to the charity is minimal. I will email you a copy of the policy as soon as I have time - I expect this will be in the 24 hours. You will note that you are probably not covered for the data protection risks that doing OTRS volunteer work for the WMF involves. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 16:05, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Sent! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 16:34, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Received. Unfortunately this is not the relevant policy. You have emailed me a copy of the current privacy protection/breach insurance (supplied by Hiscox) that as I recall the charity only started purchasing after the WMF made it a requirement of payment processing. It is a form of technical insurance for data, which specifically excludes liability resulting from any services provided by the charity, so it not only excludes volunteers from its cover, it actually excludes services from employees or contractors.

Could you supply the correct insurance policy that is relevant to the activities of the charity and to which I believe I and all other active volunteers are insured parties? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 17:26, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Of course. There are a few redactions I'll have to make, but I'll try and get it to you in the next few days - it's a much bigger policy and is printed on weird embossed paper so I'll need to scan the pages individually (they don't go through the feeder properly). Out of interest, what is it you'd like to check? Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 19:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

As an insured party I would like to exercise what I believe is the normal legal advice that parties to a contract read the contract. I believe all unpaid active volunteers for the charity would be sensibly advised that they should understand and have access to any insurance policy that applies to their activities before volunteering to deliver services or benefits on behalf of the charity. Should I ever be sued for damages when working as an unpaid volunteer for the charity, for example as a result of volunteering to support an editathon, when I have records showing every reason to believe that I am covered by appropriate insurance, I do not want to be caught out by only then finding out that the Chief Executive had made a decision at some point to renegotiate the terms of the policy and not tell me or any other volunteer about it.

That the insurance company Wikimedia UK has chosen as a supplier appears to be putting up apparently arbitrary obstacles in the way of sharing the insurance policy with the insured parties, I find not only bizarre but in all likelihood would be found unacceptable behaviour by the Financial Services Authority. If you are defining policy for Wikimedia UK, it may be worth checking directly with the FSA on this point, rather than relying solely on what might be a misguided middle-manager within the insurance company. --Fæ (talk) 20:47, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

As I have said, I will be sending you the insurance policy as soon as I can. No-one has put up any barriers. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:03, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The barrier as described in this thread has been introduced by the insurance supplier by insisting that Wikimedia UK remove the policy from the website, where members and volunteers could easily access it, and volunteers have to ask for a special redacted version to be created which required authorization from the Chief Executive which may or may not be granted based on unspecified criteria and may take several days. --Fæ (talk) 11:41, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Cultural Outreach Limited

Cultural Outreach Limited has been established as a wholly-owned non-trading subsidiary of Wikimedia UK for the purpose of holding the charity's rights in QRpedia. It has been recommended that we appoint two independent directors, in addition to Jon Davies. Yesterday, the board formally approved the intended appointment of Mike Peel and Doug Taylor as directors of the company. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:13, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Was that the WMUK board or the Cultural Outreach Limited board? Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 22:03, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

The WMUK board.--MichaelMaggs (talk) 22:23, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Two questions for Mike and Doug now they have a majority vote:

1. Are you going to govern COL independently of the WMUK board or defer to WMUK for matters such as who is to be a director or changes in policy and legal foundation?
2. Will you keep the CEO of WMUK as a director of COL forever, or would you prefer to become truly independent? --Fæ (talk) 10:21, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

My knowledge of company law is limited at best, but if COL is a wholly owned subsidiary, surely there's a limit to how independent its directors can be? It looks to me like this was mostly a formality—the risk of one person going under a bus (for example) and being unable to discharge their duties is relatively high; the risk of three people all going under the same bus is slightly lower, which is why it makes sense to have multiple directors, even if they don't have an awful lot of work to do. Harry Mitchell (talk) 13:28, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The scope of QRpedia (a worldwide service supporting multi-language access to Wikimedia projects and potentially non-Wikimedia projects in the future) is very different from the mission of Wikimedia UK. In this sense it can never be purely a "subsidiary" managed by the Wikimedia UK board, it is only circumstance that has resulted in Wikimedia UK hosting the service for the open knowledge community. If the COL board is independent, then it will be freer to invite board members committed to QRpedia with no connection to the UK and look at potential partnerships or future hosts for the service without having any vested interests in doing this in ways that benefit Wikimedia UK. However you look at it, the CEO of Wikimedia UK is always going to have a vested interest in benefiting the organization he manages.

The trustees of Wikimedia UK are perfectly well aware that it is a requirement on them by the Charity Commission to consider if services of the charity can more effectively or efficiently deliver outcomes for the beneficiaries if made independent or handed over to another organization. Creating COL as an organizationally separate entity may provide the means for it to separate itself from Wikimedia UK entirely at some future date, and the COL board should be free to take this option if that is in the best interests of keeping the QRpedia service available and maintained. For example, if in 2015 the WMF decides chapters were always a waste of money and would rather set up regional offices, then the WMUK board might decide to close the charity down and pass all assets to the WMF UK office; if the COL were independent then they might refuse to be passed to the WMF and instead either join another organization (such as the OKF) or create their own funding stream as a global organization with no contract binding them to the WMF. --Fæ (talk) 17:46, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Harry is quite right. Cultural Outreach Limited has been set up by Wikimedia UK as a vehicle to hold the QRpedia rights. QRpedia is now being maintained for the community by the charity, and the charity will naturally retain full control via its controlling shareholding. That is perfectly normal, and there is no legal possibility for Cultural Outreach Limited, as a subsidiary, to do anything that damages the charity. There is no wedge that can be driven between a company and its subsidiary in the manner suggested. And it is important that that is the case, since otherwise Wikimedia UK could not guarantee to protect for the community (its beneficiaries) the rights it holds. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:02, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Michael. I have no idea why Mike and Doug would want to be directors with no delegated authority to do anything; it sounds exceptionally pointless. --Fæ (talk) 21:14, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

We identified a risk that needed addressing i.e. me going under a bus. As the sole director that could cause problems. Therefore we decided we needed to expand the board to address this. With luck, and careful cycling, this will never be needed. I think Mike and Doug's motivation, as ever, is to help the charity and I thank them for it. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 10:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

As a point of clarification, my two questions were for Mike and Doug now they have a majority vote. Views and speculation as to how Mike or Doug might have responded (had they been quick enough), from other parties are useful, so thanks for that, but they are not the replies from the new directors that I was asking for.

By the way, I was on the board of trustees when we decided to create COL, it was actually my proposal that we set up such a company, so I am perfectly aware of why we made that decision and my two questions were asked with that knowledge and perspective. However, thanks to Jon for jogging my memory. --Fæ (talk) 11:29, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

The directors of COL are required by companies law to act in the best interest of the company for the benefit of its members. As COL is a wholly owned subsidiary of WMUK, that would be the benefit of WMUK. In terms of appointment of directors, that is again a matter for the members of the company, which is WMUK, and not the directors themselves.

The directors of a wholly own subsidiary company are independent in the sense that they do not take instructions from WMUK in the normal course of business, but they are still required to act for WMUK benefit. If WMUK wish to transfer its assets to a hypothetical WMF regional office (as permitted by law), then that's for WMUK to decide. The directors (as directors) of a company don't have a veto on who own that company, that's for the owner(s) to decide. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 12:03, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I actually said nothing about having a power of a veto, neither did I assume that COL was independent, nor did I say that COL might do anything, anything at all, against the interests of Wikimedia UK or that they might "do anything that damages the charity" (Michael's chosen words), just that the QRpedia service potentially goes beyond Wikimedia UK's mission and that COL might be usefully independent of Wikimedia UK in the future. My questions were directly asked of Mike and Doug, though as employees and the Chairman of Wikimedia UK have intervened and chosen to interpret my questions as some kind of threat, I would guess they would not say anything that did not mirror what has already been said.

Let me just clarify what I thought was obvious but apparently not. My asking these questions is not a threat to Wikimedia UK, I expected answers from the new directors to clarify their viewpoint. I do not expect members of a charity to get shot down through a process of reductio ad absurdum for asking pretty straightforward questions. If Wikimedia UK closes down, or gets taken over in a way that changes its mission, for any reason in the next 100 years, I would expect COL to run independently if QRpedia is still being used. If the answer is that it the Chairman or the board of trustees forbids anyone considering if COL could ever be independent of their control in order to better deliver the service to beneficiaries, then the original concept of guaranteeing the QRpedia service in perpetuity or as long as it is in demand, seems less than meaningful. --Fæ (talk) 12:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I find it ironic to read "It's also a good thing for the movement that it's possible to "spin off" projects like this, which the Foundation has decided are no longer core activity, to other entities" (Chris Keating, today on Wiki Education Foundation). If WMUK believed the same might be true of itself rather than just the WMF, then "possible" means we should be free and encouraged to discuss options without it being interpreted as a threat that might damage the charity. --Fæ (talk) 13:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

The opposite is happening here; the charity has recently "spun-in" QRpedia - as you are aware. As a result QRpedia is controlled by Wikimedia UK. If your preferred option was for a third-party non-profit independent of Wikimedia UK to hold QRpedia, then you were very quiet about it in the many conversations that happened about this in 2012 and 2013. The Land (talk) 14:11, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

To repeat, as you appear to have missed the point made above, I asked a question of Mike and Doug about how independently COL would operate in the future. This might make it easier to spin off the service but this is not a case of me proposing that nor have I said, anywhere, that I prefer it.

QRpedia was not "spun-in", it was a free gift of a non-Wikimedia project and non-Wikimedia service to the Wikimedia movement from Roger and Terence that, primarily due to your personal objections and then after you negotiated the position of Chairman and took control of the QRpedia agreement from me, then took an incredibly long time to accept. I was not quiet about the alternative options, the idea of the management company being a service controlled by WMUK trustees was never my recommendation. Considering the problematic history of the agreement process, I certainly would never have recommended that the WMUK CEO was the sole director, this was how Saad decided to set it up later on. Perhaps you recall the equivalent difficult discussions about trainer certifications which I always held was a service that was a poor fit to Wikimedia UK's mission and would be usefully a separate service?

Factoring out services and only taking on services that are core to the charity's mission was always something that I took seriously as a trustee, especially considering that the charity has no track record of benchmarking itself to demonstrate it has the capability to perform these services more effectively or efficiently than other organizations. In the light of the board of trustees preferring to not adopt efficiency as a key performance indicator in its new strategy, I guess that these decisions will continue to be based on subjective foundations and personal judgement. --Fæ (talk) 15:32, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fae - You are perfectly aware of the fact that Cultural Outreach Limited are owned by Wikimedia UK, and therefore that the directors do not have independence of action. So you cannot be in any genuine doubt about what the directors of COL will do. I am not clear why you are asking the question, given that you know the answer, but my assumption is that it's to try to make some kind of point about something or someone. The Land (talk) 17:22, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I asked the question of Mike and Doug in order to understand their viewpoint. This is exactly what I wrote above. I am no longer a trustee, nor am I in a political campaign against you. Thanks for your on-going concern for me and your thoughts about what motivation I might have. --Fæ (talk) 17:34, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I note that only 15 minutes after making a pointy comment about my motivation here (and after 4½ months of no edits, which has raised questions about canvassing on IRC), you made this extremely personal comment in my Commons RFA. Surprising for a trustee of Wikimedia UK and quite visibly carrying your disputes into the projects that are irrelevant there. --Fæ (talk) 17:58, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

What I've posted on your Commons RFA is nothing different to what I told you directly last summer. My views haven't changed since then. I shan't be commenting further in this thread as it is far enough off-topic already. Regards, The Land (talk) 18:11, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I do not recall you making ill judged defamatory comments about me in public. I find your statement that I have "an ability to lose friends [and] alienate people which is almost unparalleled" to be a direct personal attack that I would expect accounts to get blocked for on this wiki as harassment. I am amazed that any trustee believes it is okay for them to behave so appallingly in public when commenting about Wikimedia UK matters on a Wikimedia project where they are known to be on the board of Wikimedia UK. --Fæ (talk) 20:45, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fæ. I'm still working through the organisation's paperwork before I decide whether to accept the role or not (see User:Mike Peel/Cultural Outreach Ltd for details). I don't know about Doug, but until we accept the role and are formally appointed we certainly don't have a majority vote. With regards (1), I understand that the governance of the organisation should be done independently of WMUK but should, of course, heavily involve consultation with the stakeholders, of which WMUK is the primary one given that they are the sole shareholder. With (2), this is an interesting question that needs to be thought about, and decided upon based on the level of independence that needs to exist between COL and WMUK. I don't know the answer here yet. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:58, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Mike. I appreciate your response and its clear distinction from what has been stated above. --Fæ (talk) 23:28, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Domains

Will the related domains of qrpedia.net, qrpedia.org.uk and qrpedia.co.uk, held respectively (according to whois.com) by Wikimedia UK, Michael Peel and the Bamkin family, also be transferred to COL? TheOverflow (talk) 23:35, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Note that qrpedia.org.uk has been transferred to WMUK ownership, but it seems we still haven't managed to convince nominet to update their records to reflect that. :-( I don't know if the domains need to be owned by COL rather than WMUK, as there is a difference between the implementation and the rights-ownership here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:58, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

A couple of weeks have passed and neither have the ownership details been changed nor any official comment made. Given the donation, and the decision to isolate the rights/responsibilites in qrpedia, wouldn't it make sense to move all the related domain names to the one legal owner? TheOverflow (talk) 03:25, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Could we have an update, or at least an answer, please? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:39, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

The question of whether the domain registrations owned by WMUK are listed by the respective Registrars as WMUK or COL does not matter from the legal point of view. The staff are still trying to get Nominet to correct its records regarding qrpedia.org.uk to reflect the fact that ownership of that domain was transferred some time ago from Mike Peel to WMUK. We will maintain that domain, though it is not actually used by the QRpedia system. As to the other domains, they are not used by QRpedia and there is no intention that they ever will be. The charity has had legal ownership and control of all the necessary domains for some time, and we will not be actively attempting to control or acquire other domains which happen to include the text 'qrpedia' (.uk, .us, es or whatever). They are of no interest to us, and there is no particular legal consequence of third parties acquiring or maintaining such unused domains. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:22, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

This appears to be answering a general question about random domains. The question asked a month ago was specifically about "qrpedia.net, qrpedia.org.uk and qrpedia.co.uk". As a past chairman of the charity, I am aware all these three domains have been specifically discussed by the board and the board has a viewpoint. As such there could be a specific answer rather than disappointingly dismissing the question as "no particular legal consequence". --Fæ (talk) 12:16, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

The general issue is of interest to quite a few people following a recent discussion of an unrelated .es domain by the Tech Committee, which is why I addressed it. If the question is "will we be asking the respective registrars to list COL on their records rather than WMUK?" the answer is probably not since the crucial issue is which legal entity actually owns the domains, not who is shown on the registrar's listing (which is not the same thing at all). COL owns all the IP rights and all the necessary domains, which is the reason for its existence. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:10, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

I was unaware of a "discussion of an unrelated .es domain", could someone provide a link to the discussion here, so that all members can benefit from it? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:42, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

[3] and [4] are the threads on the tech list. It seems that you need to join the mailing list in order to see the archives at the moment. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:48, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Could someone change the list to make it public please? There are obvious benefits to being able to provide links to discussions that anyone can follow without joining the list. --Fæ (talk) 15:50, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested as Bug 224. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:53, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

(ec) By the way, domain registration may not be the best legal device to prove ownership in a court of law, but considering the mission of the charity is to be transparent in its operations, ensuring that the public record does not obfuscate or otherwise mislead as to the nature of the property or assets of the charity should be a given. Transparent should mean publicly transparent, especially for our members, donors and volunteers, not just those such as employees or trustees that have access to in-camera or unpublished records. --Fæ (talk) 15:50, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

qrpedia.net and qrpedia.org.uk details has been updated. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 12:30, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. TheOverflow (talk) 00:26, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

GLAM-Wiki toolset staffing

Hi all. I'm not sure where to ask this, so I hope it's OK I'm asking it here. I was surprised to learn recently that the GLAM-Wiki toolset/mass upload tool only had one developer working on it, which was part of why it really struggled as a tech project. My memory from the initial documents was that there was going to be a lead developer with a number of other developers working alongside them on a part/fractional time basis, with the lead developer being ~50% of the person-time working on the project and the others making up the rest, but the comments I've seen seem to disagree with that (and seem to be a major factor in why the project wasn't successful, along with the lack of code review resource, and a general lack of close and ongoing links with the WMF developers). Can I ask what happened here, please? Did something change part way through the project? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:55, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I have followed the email discussion about this with interest, being a member of the Steering Group, particularly as there seems a misapprehension that this is a Europeana project or tool rather than one owned by the Wikimedia community. There is a team of people within Europeana who have been working on the toolset in the past year, recently Dan was the last remaining team member completing the work, primarily due to an extended unplanned delay of several months caused by the WMF. The team had different types of Agile development roles, but there was no point in the Steering Group finding funds to keep the team contracted to hang around waiting for the WMF to do their thing, when we only needed one point of contact to handle any bugs or last minute new operational requirements that the WMF might create. If you have detailed questions I suggest raising them on the discussion page at Commons:Commons:GLAMwiki Toolset Project; you may be interested in how the Agile approach chosen has been able to deliver the tool even with a major budget shortfall against plan. As for the WMF's feedback on the project, they are more than welcome to video conference in to Steering Group meetings, where they have been repeatedly invited, and we will write up any feedback they have; I have no idea why Erik feels he needs to use various email lists to do this for the first time.

The project has yet to be launched, we will do this with a set of initial GLAM case studies (Àlex <kippelboy> is working inside Europeana to make the launch a success) but the system is live and (finally) integrated into Commons as a special page available to those with the GWToolset right. If someone has been saying the project has failed, it would be useful to put them right by pointing to the facts. --Fæ (talk) 11:43, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I think Fae is right - this is a question for the GW Toolset people and Fae specifically. Maybe Jonathan Cardy can help too. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 13:40, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

To answer Mike's original question, there was a change part way through the project when some of the other chapters withdrew from the consortium because they needed the money for other things, as a result the scope of this phase was reduced, but still includes a mass upload tool. We still need various other features including a mass extract tool, but that would require more funding. Jonathan Cardy (WMUK) (talk) 17:45, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fæ and all. Thanks for your replies. There seems to be a mismatch here between what's been said in the email discussion about this, particularly by the WMF, and what is being said here. Perhaps it's an over-simplification on the WMF's part, but it might be worth clarifying this, or generally gathering feedback from stakeholders about what the issues were here and what could be done better next time (I suspect that trying to do that at a video con is not the best approach - better to invite written text). Fæ, I haven't heard anyone say that the project has failed, but it doesn't seem to have been a successful project from my perspective in terms of how it has worked overall, even though the end product has been created (and I look forward to seeing it in action). But perhaps I'm being premature in saying that. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

As Wikimedia UK pulled out of supporting or funding the project a year ago, I suggest anyone with feedback or questions raise them on the Commons project pages rather than on this chapter wiki. Neither the project team, nor the Steering Group keeps a watch on this website. --Fæ (talk) 12:14, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Use of NoIndex on this wiki

I agree with the use of noindex directives to stop search engines indexing out-of-date content on this wiki. However, at the moment it's excessive. The {{historical}} template marks pages as noindex: this is appropriate for old drafts or meeting minutes, but there are lots of pages about our work which are archived yet we still want very visible to the public. If someone hears that Wikimedia UK ran an education conference in 2012, or a GLAM-Wiki conference in 2010, or a training event with the Society of Biology, it's logical for them to search for details, and they might not get any results because search engines have been told not to index those pages. It also hurts our search engine placement because links in to those pages won't be counted towards the ranking of the whole site. Can we have a solution that distinguishes historical-and-outdated from no-longer-updated-but-we-still-want-the-public-to-see? MartinPoulter Jisc (talk) 15:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

The use of noindex was my idea, to make it easier for people to reach current events through search engines. I didn't realise it might negatively effect search engine placement. It might be worth having two templates: one for out of date pages which don't need to appear in search engines, and one for past events where people may still be turning up looking to learn what happened. Does that sound like it might work? Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 15:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Good spot Martin. I'd err on the side of not using NoIndex unless it's old drafts. Even on meeting minutes people might well search for something. This is something where having better internal navigation would also help. Sjgknight (talk) 15:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure it makes sense to have pages here noindex'd except possibly if there are specific reasons to do so - certainly it shouldn't be a blanket approach. Why not add a parameter onto the historical template so that individual pages can be set to index=no or similar to activate the noindex code? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:33, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Added it as a parameter. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 14:00, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Katie. I've also added it to {{Talk archive}} and {{Historical/Job description}}. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:59, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Mediawiki Extensions (and highlighting Thanks feature)

I notice we now have the 'Thanks' extension installed, which is nice. So, if you haven't spotted it yet - check it out (top right when you look at a page diff, or next to 'undo' on the revision history lines).

I can think of some things semantic extensions might be useful for...but a bit involved for the benefits, but was wondering if there were other things we could/should be asking tech to look at setting up on this Wiki? I'm not sure how excited I am about Flow, but at some point discussion on discussion is probably a good idea! Sjgknight (talk) 14:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think we should be beta testing things on this wiki as we don't have the volume of edits to make it worthwhile from a development point of view, and we don't have the same level of technical support in case things go disastrously wrong. I have no objection to anything that is tried and tested however. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 01:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Thryduulf's points are very good ones that I agree with. The counter-argument would be that as we don't have such a volume of edits here, it would be better to try things out on this wiki compared with enwp so that bugs can be caught without a high cost. However, I tend to view that as an argument to try things on smaller wikipedias first rather than on enwp, rather than trying them on chapter wikis... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I can see points on both sides there, if there's anything worth playing with (established or otherwise) we can cross that bridge then :-) Sjgknight (talk) 22:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Membership Survey 2013

Hi all,

I have just published the results of a lot of hard work from User:Thryduulf in producing the reporting into the 2013 Members survey. Do have a look at WMUK membership survey - 2013 report.

It may make sense to ask questions on the talk page of the highlight report. Staff are still thinking about how to carry the report forward and implement recommendations for improvements. There is an intention to re-run the survey in around six months, possibly to co-oincide with Wikimania activities if that will improve response rates and expanded to included volunteers (with an option for respondents to indicate that they are members)

We'll hopefully write a blog about it to go out next week, and can try and include some answers to questions in that as summary if there are some headline themes.

Thanks! Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 15:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Very interesting stuff - thanks Katherine and Thryduulf! The Land (talk) 20:09, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

The demographic data seems to be missing? Philafrenzy (talk) 00:24, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Due to the confidentiality issues involved, I was not given the demographic data to analyse and so it doesn't form part of this report. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 10:26, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

I think that is correct (and it was me that suggested that as the correct approach). I assume, however, that we will get it in summary form in due course. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:46, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Did anyone have any thoughts on item 18 in the survey findings? It seemed rather odd to me. Mccapra (talk) 06:20, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Which aspect of it do you find odd? The interest in paywalled material, the lack of interest in welcome gifts or something else? Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 11:43, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The point about access to paywall protected tools. Maybe I misunderstood it? Is the point that there are some tools which people need to use which have a cost to them, and that members were asking for WMUK to defray those costs? I originally read it as meaning that there was a wish for us to erect paywalls and then give members privileged access to the material behind them, but I don't suppose that can be what was meant.Mccapra (talk) 15:03, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

It'll be in reference to access to journal subscriptions and the like Sjgknight (talk) 15:07, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's about WMUK paying for access to material that is published behind paywalls erected by ohters - journals mostly but possibly also newspaper archives. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 15:53, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Ah OK thanks. In that case we should probably investigate. Mccapra (talk) 16:20, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Announcing Wikimedia UK's new five year strategy

Dear community

I am very pleased to be able to announce that the board of Wikimedia UK has formally adopted a five year strategy for the charity.

The strategy sets out not only our mission ("to help people and organisations create and preserve Open Knowledge, and to help provide easy access for all") but also the way in which we aim to achieve that in practice.

To ensure that our day-to-day activities are closely focussed on attainment of our mission, we have committed to record and publish a wide range of measured outcomes which will indicate, on an ongoing basis, how we are performing against a range of strategic goals. These measured outcomes will build up over time into a comprehensive picture of the practical impact the charity has been able to make.

In preparing the strategy we consulted widely with own Wikimedia UK community, the Wikimedia community at large, other chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation, and interested individuals. The draft strategy documents were open for public consultation during the month of February, and feedback received was taken into account along with staff and board contributions. We have replied to the community feedback on-wiki.

We are confident that as the end result of this process we have a robust strategy that will serve us well in the years to come. It will enable us to maintain and track challenging but achievable targets while retaining operational flexibility to focus our day-to-day efforts on whichever individual activities and initiatives will best help us achieve practical impact.

We would like to thank everyone who has contributed to the process, and we look forward to continuing to work with the community with renewed focus and vigour.

Best regards, --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:02, 10 March 2014 (UTC) (WMUK Chair)

Referendum on Scottish independence

In a previous Engine Room discussion Stevie Benton asked a question about this topic which went on to become a conversation about WMUK's charitable status in Scotland. I don't think Stevie's question was fully addressed, and so can I now ask it to be given some consideration. In the event of a 'Yes' vote, have the consequences been considered both for Wikimedia UK (or might that be Wikimedia rUK?) and WMUK funding? I appreciate that people might not want to speculate on political possibilities, but in a way that's the point: it is a possibility. Graeme Arnott (talk) 22:30, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I would also back this request for consideration. I imagine that the discussion has been had, but I don't any kind of contingency plan in the event of Scottish independence, or even a note/suggestion on what would be an advisable course of action. Given that this could, potentially, be a significant concern for the 2014-2019 plan, I think it would be good to at least have the conversation publicly now. To some extent it would be speculation, yes, but the impact of the referendum is a topic that is being logistically discussed by other organisations both in Scotland and elsewhere, and I know I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. I'm not 100% sure what I would even suggest myself, so I would definitely appreciate seeing some possibilities raised, however rough they may be at this time. ACrockford (talk) 12:09, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

A fascinating area to speculate on and I would be interested to hear community thoughts on this. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 14:58, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Just a really quick take on this (although I should be out in the sunshine!), I think it's an important question. My initial thinking would be that we could continue to support the work in Scotland as an element of our international support which is somewhere in the activity plan. But a contingency plan would certainly be worthwhile. I, too, would love to hear what others think about this - especially in the context of the excellent work that Graeme, Ally and others are doing in Scotland. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 15:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Having a vague idea on what it will mean for us in the event of a yes vote is probably worthwhile. However, we don't need to work on detailed specific until and unless there's a yes vote. There will be a period after a yes vote where negotiation will take place between Scotland and rest of the UK on the specific of the separation, and we can use that time. It's not like a yes vote is announced and Scotland will be independent the very next day. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 16:08, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, something we need to give some thought to and haven't really - though worth pointing out that any English-based charity that does work in Scotland will face the same issue!

Some initial thoughts (which are all personal and not remotely a Board view!)

There probably wouldn't be the necessity for anything to change quickly. We will before too long be registered as a charity in Scotland as well as in England & Wales; and even if we weren't, our charitable objects and our Chapters Agreement with the Wikimedia Foundation would still allow us to operate in Scotland, even if Scotland was a fully independent country.

What happens in the longer run would naturally be down to Scottish Wikimedians. It's quite conceivable that we could continue as a "multinational" organisation indefinitely, and I'm sure many organisations on both sides of the border will do exactly that. But if there was a strong call from the community to set up a new Wikimedia Scotland I can't see WMUK trying to object. There are some things that we wouldn't be able to pass on to a separate legal entity (e.g. we couldn't give names/addresses of members/donors in Scotland to a hypothetical new chapter, because of the Data Protection Act) but otherwise I hope we would be as helpful as possible. It's also quite possible that there might be pragmatic reasons to create a new Wikimedia Scotland - if the two countries end up with different currencies with highly variable exchange rates, for instance, or if the Scottish government were to decide to make generous grants to organisations headquartered in Scotland....

But yes, something to think about... The Land (talk) 21:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd say that's a sensible view to take; we can continue operating in an independent Scotland, and if a prospective Scottish chapter forms, we can support them. Would it be worth considering creating a subsidiary to operate in Scotland if there were benefits to having separate entities like those you suggest, Chris? Harry Mitchell (talk) 17:22, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

In terms of data protection, my understanding (and it may be wrong) is that it would be possible to share member information with a Wikimedia Scotland, which would be after a vote) if we have consent from members to do that. It may be worth seeking legal opinion on the desirability of something like "Subject to the laws of England and Wales and Scotland, we may share the information of members or donors who are resident in Scotland with a Wikimedia chapter recognised by the Wikimedia Foundation as the national chapter for Scotland.". It would surprise me if either country thought it in their interests to restrict data-sharing between them, but when politics gets involved it is probably wisest not to bet against any course of action. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 01:12, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your all your input folks. It's good to get the conversation started, even if it can't go much further at present. Although the 'official' media polls show No in the lead, at street level Yes tends to have a 60+% poll. Just less than six months to go and still plenty to play for. Graeme Arnott (talk) 13:03, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Update licence to CC-BY-SA 4.0?

Hi all. I'd like to suggest updating the default license used by WMUK (both here, and through image uploads etc.) to CC-BY-SA-4.0 rather than 3.0. The main change that I can see here is that any breach of license would be given a 30-day grace period to correct the breach before the license would be invalidated (clause 7b1), but there are also other changes such as covering database rights. Are there any arguments against updating the licence here? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I've no objection to switching to v 4.0 as the default.--MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:07, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

How will that work for content that is current v3.0 licensed? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:34, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Existing uploaded media content would stay under the existing licence. Not sure how the text should be dealt with. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:25, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

It might be worth the board/staff attending the proposed CC-4.0 session at Wikimania to learn more, and ask any questions about how to do this transition. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:21, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Terms of use

The "Terms of use" link in the footer of every page currently links to the Terms of use page on the WMF Foundation Wiki (Foundation:Terms of use). Given that this wiki is now independently hosted, the terms of use should probably be a local page. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 23:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's the very next thing on the list of things to be done. Community suggestions for a new set of terms for us to work on would be more than welcome.--MichaelMaggs (talk) 06:42, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Any community thoughts? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:00, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, we talked about this at the coventry meetup - I still think the best approach is to start with the WMF's new ToS and then make any changes needed for them to be suitable for use here (which I would hope would be minimal, although you said that more substantial changes are needed). I hope that conversation helped here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:23, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Education pages

Hi all, I've replaced the old Education projects page link with an Education Portal in the sidebar. The new portal includes all the old info, with some new bits and a bit of reorganisation. This is my first attempt at a portal, so I'm sure there are visual and technical improvements to be made! If anyone fancies doing that, or editing the content, or thinking about creating improved structures anywhere else it'd be appropriate (other projects?), that'd be great. Sjgknight (talk) 12:24, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Loving the portal. That's just what we need.

I notice we have a number of portals now. Is it worth creating a Portal namespace? At the moment, the word portal is just part of the title.

Yaris678 (talk) 13:11, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed we didn't have a portal namespace. Is it worth creating one? The way I see it, on Wikipedia it helps differentiate edits in articlespace from others, is it such an important distinction here? A portal is a navigational aid, so I'm not sure we need either the prefix or the namespace in this case. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:30, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd say no, as the whole website is essentially a portal for WMUK's work rather than being the meta work around the project's content. Perhaps this new portal could simply be at Education? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:25, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Only just noticed the reply here. I think moving the page to Education makes sense and would make it easier to find for non-Wikipedians. Simon and Toni, do you think it's worth moving the page? Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 11:34, 25 April 2014 (BST)

Ambivalent, certainly don't object to it being moved though as long as all the sub-pages, etc. still work and it isn't just going to take loads of time to manually move lots of pages! Sjgknight (talk) 11:37, 25 April 2014 (BST)

It's easy to make the move, there's an option to move subpages (well 100 at a time). If no one objects by Monday I'll make the change. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 14:45, 25 April 2014 (BST)

Talking Wikipedia In Ghana

This event is listed to be in 4 days time (28th March) but there are no details of what this is about, and the registration page (BritishBlackMusic.com in assn with BTWSC/Wikimedia UK) is not yet created. This is such short notice would it be better to move it to a later date? --Fæ (talk) 08:05, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

A search on Google reveals that registration is possible at http://www.eventbrite.com/e/talking-wikipedia-in-ghana-tickets-10971368659?aff=es2, which also provides further details. (I have nothing to do with the event, was just interested in if (and what) details were available. TheOverflow (talk) 22:58, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

The advert on the eventbrite page claims to be a Wikimedia UK event, but it is scheduled for a different day. It is reasonable to assume that the lack of any engagement from employees on the Water cooler over several working days, seems to indicate that Wikimedia UK is lending out the name of the charity for events it has no hand in organizing, nor has agreed basic logistics for, such as the date. The are now only 3 days left before the event as per the Wikimedia UK calendar of events. I doubt this is sufficient notice for this to be considered a charity supported event that members and volunteers have been invited to attend.

I hope that no money or staff time from the UK charity is supporting this talk, considering how poorly organized it appears to be.

Could an employee or a Trustee please confirm that is the case, or if not, then how much money is being spent on this? --Fæ (talk) 13:40, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

What's the problem? The eventbrite page only says "with support from Wikimedia UK" and it looks like a basic introduction to Wikipedia event. The calendar on the main page isn't limited to Wikimedia UK run events; it currently includes two independent meet ups and Wikimedia Conference 2014 for example. Perhaps there could have been a link but I don't see that as a critical failure. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 14:50, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

We (WMUK members) have confidence that we understand who is arranging Wikimedia Conference events and the nature of the relationship with Wikimedia UK is a public affair. The eventbrite page linked above was only found by TheOverflow searching on Google, not because Wikimedia UK knew about it or recommends that as a source of agreed information. Members and volunteers neither knowing where or when this event will be is a critical problem for any Wikimedian that would like to actually attend or may want to help. Three days notice is insufficient and (bizarrely) the Wikimedia UK advertized date is different to the eventbrite published date.

When a UK national charity provides support to other organizations, volunteers and members should be free to ask where and when the events are, expect transparency and accountability for support (money, paid employee time?) and a published definition of joint arrangements, even if just a brief statement.

I hope my basic questions above are welcome and fit the Watercooler which is supposed to be a place for questions about events. However I am aware that under the new working practices on the Watercooler my assumption may be wrong.

Every support commitment or partnership Wikimedia UK enters, needs basic understanding of what the support/partnership is, who the relationship is with, and why it fits the mission of the charity. Without a documented understanding between all parties, there is a risk that misunderstanding and confusion may waste our donor's money or lead to damaging the reputation of the charity. --Fæ (talk) 15:06, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Surely there is a proportionality issue here. It's just an introduction/editathon level event. I would expect WMUK to be generally in favour of, and provide at least some support for, any and all such events (and, by extension, would have no reputational risk because of that ubiquity). Unless it is something more significant thatn this, I'd say any "published definition of joint arrangements" would be excessive. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 15:33, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

By that I mean any credible explanation in public. I agree that in this case, something like two clear sentences would be sufficient and proportional.

At the moment members of the charity have no idea if WMUK is footing the bill for any expenses or funding anything else. Employees, trustees have been strangely reticent to clarify anything.

It is the charity's name against an event that is advertized as in 2 days time, but puzzlingly, we are unsure of the date.

Update I note that the Eventbrite page has been updated in the last 24 hours. It appears that Kwaku is delivering this event for Wikimedia UK. It is not clear if this is an edit-a-thon or not. Without a registration page on-wiki we do not know if any trained trainers are going to be available to help. You may recall that to date, Kwaku BBM has made 10 edits to Wikipedia over 10 months, some of which had COI issues. It is an odd situation for Wikimedia UK to be officially supporting. --Fæ (talk) 17:41, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

This event is either tomorrow or on Saturday, depending on which source you check. As a week has passed since I first asked about the basic logistics of this event on the Watercooler, it would be great to have an employee or trustee of the charity confirm the nature of the partnership/association with BBM (British Black Music) and/or BTWSC (Brent Black Music History Project) and whether any of the charity's money is supporting these organizations or this event in expenses or otherwise. If there are reasons for apparent silence in response to questions from the board or employees at this time, it would be good to have this stated. From the Eventbrite information discovered by TheOverflow, it appears this event is in Ghana rather than in the UK (this was not apparent to me, until Kwaku updated the Eventbrite page with more information on Tues/Weds).

It appears that the experienced Wikimedians who are part of the proposed Wikimedia Chapter in Ghana have not been informed about this event, nor asked to help. Their blog is at http://planningwikimediaghana.blogspot.co.uk (the most recent post being on 8 March 2014) and their events page is at meta:Planning Wikimedia Ghana/ Events & Projects. I have approached Sandister Tei as the official community liaison in their organization. --Fæ (talk) 11:05, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

It really doesn't look good, nor inspire confidence, that the office is saying absolutely nothing about this project here. Has this project gone completely off the rails? Or is the office just being secretive for no good reason? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 12:14, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mike! A volunteer is travelling to Ghana and offered to do a quick 'Introduction to Wikipedia' session while he is there - that's all. I don't want to go into too much detail, because the cost is minimal, it's a tiny event on another continent, and the risk is low - so our time is better spent on things like Wikimania or larger events, where potential mistakes are much more costly. For Ghana, when I checked, we're just paying for refreshments etc for those that arrive there - no flight costs or anything similar. Just sundries (sandwiches etc). It'll be an interesting event from a financial point of view: I'd like to see if we can run events at such a long distance, especially in a country where the financial systems are less stringent than in the UK. If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me with them, and I'll see if I can get some answers. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 13:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Richard. Thanks for the response. Can I ask why this didn't go through the grants process then, please? Also, can I ask why the proto-chapter in Ghana that Fæ mentioned above haven't been informed about it? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 13:21, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I see that the charity ignores legitimate questions on governance from me for 7 days but will provide answers on the same thing for Mike within 45 minutes. The statement given in this thread that this is just a volunteer is confusing, as it does not appear to match the statement given by Jon Davies a week ago "[BritishBlackMusic] are an independent organisation with whom we have worked and hope to continue to work" nor does it match the way the event in Ghana is promoted on Eventbrite.[5][6]

Surely all Wikimedians can see how remarkably strange it is to fund someone with only 10 edits on Wikipedia to run a 3 hour long 'Introduction to Wikipedia' workshop and can be seen promoting their website and consultancy services at the same time? I am amazed that the board of trustees and charity employees appear to believe that either blanket silence or the equivalent of "there is no problem to see here, move along" are acceptable responses to a governance and communications failure. --Fæ (talk) 21:55, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Fæ, your comments about the TtT benefits here are blatantly untrue - the aim of that course is to teach volunteers about how to teach others about contributing to the Wikimedia projects, which (where the trainers are engaged in leading subsequent training events) is well worth that money. I'm sad to see you say that here, where your other points are spot on. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:10, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, I have removed "main". As one of the original architects of the training concept, I believe a benefit is that the charity has confidence when recommending a certified trained trainer and a key part of all training events I have been involved with has been addressing potentially contentious areas of policy such as COI—even NPOV and CIV can be difficult for newer contributors. These may not be why the course was designed, but it is an expected outcome. I am slightly puzzled, you may be reading my words here differently to my intention, I have not said that TtT was not good value for what it delivers, I was only contrasting the Ghana workshop to events that are supported by trained trainers. --Fæ (talk) 22:38, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

The emphasis in your comment on 'the UK charity invests £800 a head to send active volunteers on a train the trainers course', along with your comment about your expected aims for the project, seemed to imply the lack of value. My memory was that Martin was the key architect behind this concept.... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:47, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Suppressed the tangent. How quickly we are forgotten. :-) The concept of tiered training was started from my management experience of techniques for cooperatively sharing knowledge of factory floor staff, Martin and I drew it up during a board meeting. --Fæ (talk) 22:54, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Feedback from Ghana

After making a note on-wiki, a representative of the Ghana 'proto-chapter' has promptly made contact with me by email, which I hope will make for a useful independent view of Wikimedia UK's approach to their association with BBM and the grant provided. This email (25 March) was pointed out, which confirms that none of the Wikimedians there was approached ("we were not directly informed or contacted") and there is mention of them partnering with the organizers. This seems a natural response, but considering that Wikimedia UK is supporting BritishBlackMusic.com, they may have unfortunately interpreted that as an official Wikimedia endorsement. --Fæ (talk) 16:48, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I have updated the local wikimedia-gh email list where an earlier public email of mine had been reposted. The thread and some initial feedback from the local community can be found at [Wikimedia-GH] Wikimedia in Ghana. --Fæ (talk) 21:13, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on this, Fæ. As anyone interested can see, I tried a while ago to involve Nyarko Rexford Nkansah in the 2012 Black History Month editathon. His response is here. Following up your links, I noticed that Rexford has proposed a submission for Wikimania. I do hope he receives a scholarship to attend. It is also worth checking this For Rexford Nkansah, Wikipedia represents the future of education for his country. Leutha (talk) 12:06, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks back Leutha, I appreciate the thought, along with the personal emails of thanks to me from the Ghana community.

Most disappointing in this story is that the UK Chapter was alerted to the issue more than a week ago and much positive work could have been done in that time with the local Ghana community to build bridges or for one of the ten full time employees to check the background of BlackBritishMusic.com rather than relying on unpaid volunteers to do it. --Fæ (talk) 14:00, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Moving this thread

This thread was moved by an employee from the Watercooler to the Engine room on 3rd April. As it is about a specific event, which is the new definition of the Watercooler, could it please be moved back? I do not want to do this myself as doubtless it would be treated as abuse of some sort for me to take bold action as a volunteer. --Fæ (talk) 12:42, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Given the event has happened, and the current thread is not directly about that event, it seems to me the move is entirely appropriate. I don't really think there's much more to say here either. Sjgknight (talk) 12:46, 3 April 2014 (BST)

(ec) That employee of Wikimedia UK is myself. Considering you, Fae, described this as a governance issue it belongs here. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 12:48, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Fair enough. I look forward to the next britishblackmusic.com event, I may try to make it myself. --Fæ (talk) 12:59, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Response to the threads

I have moved this to the Engine Room as it is an internal matter.

The event in Ghana is supported by WMUK but not organised by us. There is an interesting discussion to be had here about how we indicate our level of involvement in ANY event. This is especially relevant to our collection of data. To quote an extreme example, if we sent someone to the Cup Final could we claim it to be ours and indicate 90,000 people attended one of our events? Obviously not but there are nuances here where an event becomes supported by us to such an extent that it would count. So to take a real recent example. Some volunteers set up an event without any WMUK input. Fine. That is the sort of thing we want. Let a thousand flowers bloom - let a thousand editors get together and contribute. The whole basis of the movement's success. But they then approach the office for help. We set up a page advertising the event. Has it become ours yet? We send them cheat sheets and some pens. Is it ours yet? We send Train the Trainers people to help. Is it ours yet? We pay for the sandwiches? Is it ours yet? I don't want to get boring but there are a spectrum of possibilities here and we need to think about how we describe events we are publicising through the spectrum of 'nothing to do with us but good to know about' through 'supported' to 'Co-organised with' to 'Organised by'. I think it would be helpful to define these levels and make it clear to the community and outside organisations what they can expect from us at each level. Thoughts please.

The Ghana event was definitely 'supported by' in that we donated some literature, a few t-shirts etc for those who attend and up to £200 from our Extending reach budget as this fits in closely with our strategic plans principally:

G5 Develop, support, and engage with other Wikimedia and Open Knowledge communities

This Goal relates to our support for communities other than our own community of WMUK volunteers (for which, see 2.1 above). Some of these other communities are outside the UK - such as other Wikimedia chapters and organisations - while others are UK-based but separate from WMUK (some local Wikimeets, special interest, language-based and ad hoc groupings). Some communities are Wikimedia project-based (Wikipedia WikiProjects, Commons photographic competitions). Finally, we want to engage with non-Wikimedia Open Knowledge groups whose missions are aligned with our own.

Aim

• We will work with other Wikimedia communities and organisations in an open way to facilitate shared learning across the entire movement. We will encourage and provide support to other Wikimedia communities to help them develop, diversify and thrive. We will play a leading role in sharing good practice and acting as a focus for debate. We will work with non-Wikimedia Open Knowledge groups to further our Open Knowledge vision.

Outcomes

• G5.1 A thriving set of other Wikimedia communities
• G5.2 An increased diversity of Wikimedia contributors
• G5.3 Wikimedia communities are skilled and capable.
• G5.4 Open Knowledge communities with missions similar to our own are thriving.

It also relates to their goals as well.

We felt that the Ghana event was worth the small amount of cost involved. WMUK has always been willing to experiment and indeed has known success and failure but this is a modest amount of funding and very little staff resource even including writing this.

We know the organiser well. He worked with us on an editathon last year, was a diligent delegate to the Wikimedia Diversity Conference and has remained in touch with us ever since. And he knows that any funding will be entirely dependent on the receipt of evidence of spend acceptable to our auditors.

It is highly relevant to note that he represents a group highly under-represented in our community, i.e. Black British, a group we really need to engage with if Wikimedia projects are to truly represent their users.

We have often supported people without knowing much about them and this is as it should be. The important factor is to balance the risks. You would not give £1000 up front to someone you had never heard of but you might purchase a significant piece of equipment on loan to someone well known to the community. We need to encourage new volunteers and we cannot set thresholds that will deter. We do not have a policy of restricting funding to those with n,000 + edits and quite rightly so. That way lies atrophy. Some really good impact has come from people whose only qualification was a good idea and £5 membership of WMUK.

Although we made contact with at least one Ghanaian Wikimedian I accept that we did not handle this well. We should have contacted their chapter as soon as we were approached. I have since contacted them. Happily they seem to have assumed good faith which I wish we all did a little more. A good lesson to learn and the first time we have made such a mistake, I put this down to the speed it all happened and the general pressure on staff to do everything at once!

As to the lack of response from the office. I was away and would have picked this up quicker if I had been here and Richard S made a brave attempt to plug the gap. We are not an inexhaustible resource. I did talk to the volunteer about the questions being asked before I went on holiday and he asked me to share his email with the questioner as he was happy to answer questions directly. I did this although I am not sure this offer was taken up.

This did not go through the grants process as it was not a grant. It fits squarely in our programme as detailed above.

To say it again this was funding through an individual volunteer not any organisation.

I don't think it is 'strange' that we asked this volunteer to do this. He was wiling to take kilos of WMUK literature etc in his luggage and support local Wikimedians and would-be Wikimedians. There was no way we could justify sending a couple of trainers there so this seemed good value and completely in line with what we should be doing.

There was a discussion about Train the Trainers which I don't understand but if somebody wants to explain I will reply.

So some mistakes but also effective outreach, good faith and hopefully good links with Ghana in the future.

The dates issue is perplexing but these things happen. Apologies to anyone who was inconvenienced.

Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 12:47, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Jon, you have explained something about what happened and made an apology, thanks for doing that now. It is refreshing to feel that my questions are not just being indefinitely blanked or dismissed. With regard to your indirect comment about me contacting Kwaku, I am waiting on information from the Heritage Lottery Fund, as I explained to you by email. If you need me to release my email of 2 weeks ago, I shall do so. Until I have that information I cannot review it with Kwaku nor compare the statements on his website and promotional material against it. As an unpaid volunteer, I hope you understand that handling the bureaucracy of checking Wikimedia UK partnerships or associations on behalf of the charity is not going to be my top priority, particularly when I am never going to be thanked or recognized for doing it.

As the CEO, can you identify and recommend any (SMART) learning points for the organization, and do you intend to propose how Wikimedia UK operations should improve the management of partnerships or non-UK funded/expenses paid events and their promotion as a result of the mistakes you have highlighted above? --Fæ (talk) 13:34, 3 April 2014 (BST)

---

A full set of metrics covering all we do has been constructed that we will report on quarterly to the board and FDC. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 13:37, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Sorry, there may be a format problem. Is this your answer to my question about what has been learned from this incident and what you will now change? --Fæ (talk) 13:40, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Incident? Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 15:06, 3 April 2014 (BST)

The one above. Perhaps someone else might help explain why corrective action and planned improvement might be a good idea in addition to your apology for what happened, especially when another organization, based on your statement, has published false advertising of partnership with the charity. From past experience, trying to put my point of view is likely to be interpreted as bad faith.[7] --Fæ (talk) 15:41, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Fae, please bear in mind that staff are now working to meet strategic SMART charitable targets, which did not exist in your day as a trustee. As a consequence they need to balance the amount of time they spend setting up ad hoc governance mechanisms, structures, targets, actions and improvements that you as a volunteer would personally like them to implement with the things they are actually being paid to do, which is to forward the objects of the charity and to meet their published targets. It's well known that you ran things differently in your day, but back then the board had approved no formal high-level strategy for the staff to work to. It is no longer acceptable (if indeed it ever was) to treat staff time as a free resource available to be used at the discretion of one individual; nor to expect them to spend hours, days or longer responding to demands that they do ever more complex and time-consuming things for you.

You might personally think more of the charity if the staff jumped every time you asked for something, and did it for you immediately, but that would amount to you as a single volunteer taking over the governance of the charity from the board and the wider community, which would be an approach my fellow trustees might have some views on. Our best attempts to follow our charitable mission may never satisfy you, but that mission takes precedence over the wishes of any one individual. There has to come a point at which the asking of critical questions (which are helpful) becomes a personal campaign (which is not). You have passed that point I am afraid, and I regret that your often helpful underlying points have become increasingly obscured by your tone. Your points would be more effectively heard by the charity and by the community if you made them, made neutral suggestions for improvements, then moved on to whatever you feel would next most benefit from your time.

No doubt you will frame this response in itself as the charity 'losing contact with its volunteers', but it is evident that whatever Jon says (and I mean absolutely whatever) you will always come back and ask for more. And then more. Going on and on is simply not fair to the staff and is not constructive. The time they spend dealing with you - not the underlying points you raise, but you personally - is time lost forever in trying to advance the charity's mission, making it more difficult for them to meet the targets against which they are publicly going to be judged. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:14, 3 April 2014 (BST)

I did not realise you might personally believe this was all about me, or support Jon's claims over the last two years that I am ordering employees of the charity to do things, I did not realize that the board thought I had so much personal charisma, or that my opinions mattered.

I have carefully read Jon's statement in which he apologises for some things and defends others. What it lacks is any commitment by the charity to learn from what went wrong, for example to ensure that partnering organizations do not use the Wikimedia brand and logos to promote their commercial business without agreeing the advertisements with the charity.

Using organizational problems and issues to generate corrective and preventative action has been fundamental management theory and practice for the last century, dating before even Juran was first writing about it. You are the Chairman, I am sure you understand the underlying issues here for the charity and the risk it represents, it is up to you and your fellow trustees to decide if you are happy with that remaining unresolved, and the members of the charity left in doubt as to whether we are moving forward, and due to failures like this, whether the charity is becoming more wise and efficient in how it uses the donor's money and the goodwill of our small number of active volunteers

To put this another way, in the form of the new strategy that you mention:

• This incident publicly damaged our international reputation, clearly failing to deliver the aim of G5/G5.1.
• Though notified well in advance, there was a lack of corrective action before the event, in particular the Eventbrite adverts including the Wikimedia UK logo with a claim of association with BritishBlackMusic.com was not removed. This fails G2b.1 and the lack of response fails to meet G2b.2.
• Failing to look for alternatives for BEM representation by either seeking partnerships with (for example) UK registered national charities with an established BEM footprint, or to approach BEM Wikimedians with strong Wikimedia project skills to support this event failed to meet G2a, G2b and G5.

For these reasons I hope there is a public report as part of the next board meeting, with measured improvements that ensure similar less than satisfactory communication and management around partnership claims or event logistics cannot happen again. --Fæ (talk) 18:34, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Just to point out: although I agree that "ad hoc governance mechanisms, structures, targets, actions and improvements" shouldn't come from individual volunteers, staff should (and do) action themselves and make improvements to what they do based on incidents like this, and the board should (and I think does) identify governance mechanisms, structures and targets that should be implemented or revised based on such incidents. There should always be lessons learnt from this sort of thing, and mistakes identified to be avoided in the future. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:45, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Hi Jon - thanks for the thorough response. Sounds like a worthwhile event. I agree it's probably worth being fairly careful to ensure we engage other chapters/nascent chapters if our activity overlaps with theirs (even if a small activity). I remember being irked myself when others haven't consulted us in the past. Regards, The Land (talk) 17:58, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Thanks also for me for the detailed response. It would be great to see this happen more often and earlier on in the discussions please. I would point out that you're being very contradictory when you say "The Ghana event was definitely 'supported by' in that we donated some literature, a few t-shirts etc for those who attend and up to £200 from our Extending reach budget as this fits in closely with our strategic plans" but then also say "This did not go through the grants process as it was not a grant. It fits squarely in our programme as detailed above." - I'd suggest that grants provide one way to separate between WMUK events and WMUK supported events. In this case, you were essentially giving a grant of money and merchandise to support an event, so it really would have seemed to me to be an obvious case for a grant. (I really hope that grants aren't only for work not set out in WMUK's overall programme!) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:36, 4 April 2014 (BST)

A little more feedback from the weekend. We seem to have made friends with the Ghana chapter with a lot of positive emails and talk of future cooperation. At least one person aims to be at Wikimania. I am really hopeful that we can build a long standing relationship with them. Mike there are lots of grey areas where sometimes something should be a grant and sometimes a more direct approach works better. In this case time was a factor and so we chose this route. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 09:51, 7 April 2014 (BST)

Well, if you err on the side of doing something as a grant, with the transparency and oversight on this wiki that that entails, then I suspect you wouldn't end up in hot water like you did here. But as I doubt me commenting in this thread will change anything, I won't bother doing so further. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:32, 7 April 2014 (BST)

Attendees at the Wikimedia Conference 2014?

Hi all. I'm rather puzzled by the list of WMUK attendees at the Wikimedia Conference this year, since it seems to imply that WMUK is sending 8 people to the conference. What's going on here? Why is WMUK apparently sending 4 trustees, 3 staff and one unknown ('Katherine Ruth'?) to a conference that every other chapter is restricted to sending 2 board members and, optionally, one staff member to? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:59, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mike - this question might have to wait until Jon is back in the office for an answer. Are you happy to wait until Monday/Tuesday for one? Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:55, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Is there a choice with waiting? ;-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 12:11, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your question Mike and apologies for the delay in reply but even I get holidays sometime! This was a question I asked myself a few months back when trying to work out who should go. You may have noticed last year at Milan that the 'two per chapter' rule was not being adhered to. I had been led to believe it would be and was disappointed not to have been able to send more WMUK people as it is such a useful forum. I checked with the German chapter on or about February 4th and the line I was given was that it is no longer the Chapters Conference as was and is now the Wikimedia Conference and that the 1+1 rule no longer applied. I can see 12 chapters who go beyond the 1+1 rule.

In our case, in addition to myself and the chair, we have three people speaking. This is also a great opportunity for newer trustees to meet the wider community as part of their induction process at a reasonable cost. I hope that helps Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 07:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

The 'two per chapter' rule was what applies to board members; it's turned more into a 2+1 rule where there's two board members and one staff member (normally the CE). Out of curiosity, what exactly did WMDE/the organisers of the conference say here? It's one thing to bend the rules a bit and bring an extra person, but to bring 8 people really looks very odd and could well damage the chapter's standing in the eyes of the other chapters (particularly those that struggle to send any representatives to the conference whatsoever!). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:34, 31 March 2014 (BST)

+1 --Fæ (talk) 17:14, 31 March 2014 (BST)

The registration details are here: [8] I don't recall anyone suggesting the registration process was wrong while it was actually open. 23:37, 1 April 2014 (BST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Land (talk • contribs)

Hi Mike, I recall this agreement, back in the time when the Chapter used to pay to send me to these meetings, as many chapters were concerned about the best use of Wikimedia movement's funds and many smaller chapters were concerned that the chapters with the largest amount of money to spend were overwhelming the conference. The general thinking was that any chapter can easily be represented by two people regardless of how large they are in terms of membership or money and if people are keen to have internal meetings then video conferencing is an alternative that costs the movement nothing. Do you have a link to where this was most recently stated?

Has anyone worked out who Katherine Ruth is and why she is representing the UK Chapter internationally? --Fæ (talk) 09:11, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Have asked the organiser who KR may be.Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 13:52, 31 March 2014 (BST)

Thank you. Mike Peel (talk) 19:26, 31 March 2014 (BST)

Now have an answer - Katherine Ruth is actually trustee Kate West - they used her middle name in error. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 08:27, 2 April 2014 (BST)

Ah, OK, I thought it might be something like that. :-) This does worry me a bit, though, in that it implies that you weren't aware of Kate West registering to attend the event before this... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:46, 4 April 2014 (BST)

For the record we have people going for four reasons:

• CEO and Chair as standard
• Two staff and one (sorry two) trustee(s) who are invited to do presentations.
• Two trustees (we are guessing KR might actually be Kate West) who will be using this as part of their induction as trustees - a great chance to meet other people and learn about the community.
• Everyone can promote Wikimania London and learn about people's ideas and expectations.

I think this is a sensible use of our resources, flights to Berlin are cheaper than many train journeys to UK cities, for our learning and helps share our knowledge and understanding with other chapters. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 16:16, 31 March 2014 (BST)

From my experience of these meetings (having attended three of them in the past), I'd say this is overkill - the number of people you're sending means that there will be multiple people from WMUK in each of the sessions, which dilutes the benefit of having people at the meeting (and reporting back from it). I'd ask for a citation on your cost point - how much are the flights, and can you give an example of a train ticket within the UK that costs more? (assuming off-peak for both of course). But I guess this is all a moot point now, though, given that everything will have been booked and paid for already... So please do assess the cost-benefit ratio here, and learn from that for next year. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:25, 31 March 2014 (BST)

When I was looking at flights, the cheapest option was £69 return (ok, plus probably £30 to get to and from the airport, and these aren't the flights I actually booked as I needed to fit around my work schedule!). That's less than I would normally pay to get to Edinburgh and back, and far less than it ended up costing to get me to Monmouth.

I am not sure that having more than one person from WMUK in a meeting makes it less effective, though.

Finally - after the Wikimedia Conference, virtually the whole Board will one way or another have spent a couple of days getting to know international Wikimedians and making connections (some at last year's Wikimania, some at the governance workshop the other weekend, some at this Wikimedia Conference). That is very useful experience which I think previous Boards could have done with more of, and something to be proud of given how new our current Board is.The Land (talk) 18:21, 1 April 2014 (BST)

Hi Chris. Thanks for responding to my points.

On flight costs - that's interesting. My flights (which I think were the cheapest option I could find, albeit from Manchester) are something like 3x that. But anyway.

I never said 'less effective', I said 'dilutes the benefit'. If you're using the meeting appropriately, i.e. the people going know the background of the discussions and WMUK's perspective/key learnings, and report back to WMUK on everyone else's perspective and key learnings, then ideally one person per meeting session works well - by having more than that you double the cost but don't double the benefits (yes, you do get more diverse opinions being put forward, but I'm sure there will be plenty of those to go around anyway. ;-) )

Yes, getting to know international Wikimedians is very important and well worth doing. But there's Wikimania in London later this year, which presumably most of the board will be going to as it's very local for them. I don't get why you're sending people to Berlin instead of waiting a few months and going for that much cheaper option! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:06, 2 April 2014 (BST)

I'll just point out that "chapter bigwig" and "Wikimedian" are not necessarily one and the same. Sure, it's important to meet people from other chapters to share experiences, best practice, discuss common issues, etc, but the moving and shaking of the movement's politicians is an entirely parallel and irrelevant process to the rank-and-file editor, without whom there would be no movement, no WMUK, no bigwigs from other chapters, no WMF... And yet when was the last time you saw a group of eight staff and trustees (or even one!) at any event for the average Wikipedian? That tells you a lot about the current direction of WMUK. Harry Mitchell (talk) 17:33, 3 April 2014 (BST)

I have had some private emails from old friends who are current chapter board members that thanked me for raising the issue, and have been surprised that the previous "gentlemen's agreement" of sending modest numbers ("2+1") has been so easily forgotten and dismissed as inconvenient. The current trustees of Wikimedia UK may be missing the point of how this appears to other chapters, some struggling to manage their plans with far more modest budgets and with either none, or far fewer employees than this chapter has in proportion to the number of members it represents. There is no dispute with the fact that as a trustee or employee, going to this conference is enjoyable and an excellent social networking opportunity; however that WMUK has chosen to send significantly greater numbers to this conference than any other chapter, will not reflect well in the eyes of many of our international colleagues.

As has been kindly pointed out, there are people who believe I should remain dead and buried with past achievements or failures forgotten. This is a choice to be made by the living, you hold the goodwill of the charity, it's up to you to ensure you understand and embody the values of the community most of you have been recently elected to represent. One day you must join me in the necropolis, it should provide an interesting perspective. --Fæ (talk) 23:00, 1 April 2014 (BST)

Response to the threads

In this discussion one aspect has been forgotten or overlooked. i.e. what are we giving back to the conference? As the second biggest chapter we risk accusations of trying to dominate the smaller chapters. I am certain we will not be doing that but the quite the opposite we will be sharing our experience and learning. Four of those attending are making presentations on what we have done. This will be of serious assistance to other chapters and organisations, especially the newer ones. After all we went through in the last two years I think we really owe it to the movement to explain how we developed. So the sessions on good governance, and monitoring and evaluation will be a crucial part of the conference. One member of staff will be talking about our cross-European advocacy work. I remember sitting in a basement room in Milan last year where a few of us realised the potential benefits of working together on EU matters. I am pleased that we have been a leading chapter in bringing this agenda so far and will be bringing the first results to Berlin. Of course we could do this by Skype but I believe the fairly modest cost of getting to Berlin justifies all the benefits of having the face to face contact, especially for those for whom English is not their first language.

In addition two of our new trustees will be there which I see as part of their proper trustee induction. They have been elected for two years bringing significant skills we needed, and this is a great chance for them to learn more about the movement. I don't think this would be as possible at Wikimania which is so much bigger and this is a great chance to make friendships that can be renewed in the summer at the Barbican.

To some extent the venue of such events is irrelevant, it is what is achieved that is important. Some of those going will add days on to other end of the conference to see Berlin and that is up to them and their purses. For the days of the conference we will be in meeting rooms that could be anywhere in the world. Berlin is a fairly cheap place to get to and accommodation not nearly as pricey as London. So all in all I think this is a valid use of our funds that will benefit our chapter but more importantly the wider movement. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 12:58, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Hi Jon. Thanks for your response. :-) I hadn't overlooked that aspect, though. WMUK certainly has many things that it can give back to the conference, and share with the other chapters. That can, however, be done by suitably briefing the representatives and asking them to give the presentations. In some cases that's not possible (in particular with advocacy work, where the discussion is more about 'why' than the facts or sharing information), but I can't believe it's the case for all of the presentations that are being given (in particular, I'd hope that all board members would feel able to present on good governance/monitoring/evalutation!). I disagree with your assertion about trustee induction and Wikimania - can you explain why you made that assertion? I'd agree with your following (contradictory) point that the venue is irrelevant, which implies that this could have been done effectively in London. I'd disagree with your point about cost, though, since every single WMUK board and staff member is now located either in London or within easy commuting distance, making accommodation costs irrelevant. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:55, 4 April 2014 (BST)

To be honest Mike I don't think any of the three areas we are addressing open themselves to a 'briefing'. The work around governance, planning and metrics is highly complicated and nuanced and will inevitably create more questions than answers. Having experts there to lead the discussions will be extremely valuable. The WMUK session in Milan last year on governance demonstrated the demand for discussion The Advocacy work will entail a lot of debate as you say.

I firmly believe (from having witnessed trustee interaction with the community in Wikimania Washington, Wikimania Hong Kong and the last two Chapter's Conferences) that in-person attendance pays real dividends for the trustees themselves and hence our chapter, helps build understanding between the chapters and gives us the chance to feedback mire intensely what we are doing.

It may be that Berlin is exceptional given our desire to bring new trustees into the loop and lay the ground for the Chapter's involvement in Wikimania 14. Perhaps we won't need to send so many people next time. In any case this s a trustee decision . I can only answer for myself and my two colleagues who are going. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 10:12, 7 April 2014 (BST)

P.S. I hope it will be an good event but let's not forget that the trustees are volunteers giving up their own time to be in quite intensive meetings for four days. I thank them.

P.P.S Not all the trustees and staff are in easy commuting distance of London. Yorkshire, and Wales are significant distances and even if HS4 is ever built Edinburgh is a significant distance away.

OK, so we disagree then - perhaps that part of things is best left as it is. This is the first time I've seen you say that it was a trustee decision - is there a link available to that decision, please? On trustee locations, I'd forgotten Seddon (sorry!), but who on the board or on the staff is based in Yorkshire or Edinburgh? Perhaps trustee locations can be added to the Board page? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:38, 7 April 2014 (BST)

Padmini lives in Edinburgh, Toni in Scarborough.

For those interested in what went on over the long weekend in Berlin our report is now up on the wiki. I firmly believe it was good value for money. And if anyone is interested only one per diem was claimed to my knowledge and my expenses, as an example, were £131 for the return flight and the hotel was £240 for four nights.

https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/WIKICON_BERLIN_2014_report

Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 09:49, 16 April 2014 (BST)

Thanks for including some of the costs of sending 8 people to this conference, helpful. It would be more meaningful if the total cost could be published. As far as I am aware, this is not a confidential matter that needs to by-pass our commitment to transparency of expenses.

With regard to CEO expenses, I note that Expenses 2013-2014 has not been updated since October 2013, making it now six months out of date. As has been discussed previously on the Water cooler, this report is explicitly required of the Finance Policy and a matter that the board of trustees should be regularly monitoring as part of our commitment to transparency. It seems reasonable for the board to assess that not successfully meeting the requirements of the Finance Policy as not meeting the Strategy monitoring plan (G2b.2 / G2b.3) when this gets reported by the board.

Thanks again for sharing your expenses promptly on this noticeboard. I look forward to seeing both your expenses and the expenses of all current trustees reported in compliance with the Finance Policy. --Fæ (talk) 15:47, 16 April 2014 (BST)

Just to comment: those sorts of pages should really include both expenses claimed and those paid directly by the chapter (e.g. flights). And thanks Richard for working on them. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:07, 17 April 2014 (BST)

If we're talking about trustees, then yes, it should. This should probably relate to the Chief Executive too (although the increased activity and the fact that the CE is paid a salary means that the rules may be different, I'm not sure). The SORP, at https://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/media/90634/sorp05textcolour.pdf reads with regard to trustees that (paras 231-233): "the aggregate amount of those expenses should be disclosed in a note to the accounts. The note should also indicate the nature of the expenses (eg travel, subsistence, entertainment etc) and the number of trustees involved...".

However, the Charity Commission recommends that we have "a written agreement setting out what is classed as an expense". This is something we're currently lacking, and is something that I believe the Board will be discussing in the future.

For the avoidance of doubt, not all of Jon's expenses for the recent trip are on there, but they do conform to what I've seen so far. As soon as I have Jon's expenses approved (obviously they have to be signed and approved), I'll get them up on the page. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 13:00, 17 April 2014 (BST)

OK, thanks Richard. :-) I'd be happy to contribute to the definition here, if that would be useful - I think my meta page list of compensation represents best practice here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:51, 17 April 2014 (BST)

Hi Mike - comments to Michael Maggs I think! It will be the board's decision as to what is classed as an expense. Your list is very good in terms of absolute transparency, but it doesn't draw distinctions between 'expenses' and 'reimbursements'. Reimbursement of trustees for purchases they have personally and properly made on behalf of the charity (such as, for example, Michael Maggs paying for office printer paper on his personal credit card) are not counted as expenses and are accounted for as part of the charity's general expenditure instead. Thus, your list lists some thing which are not (for the purposes of UK law) trustee expenses. There are other rules surrounding expenses which I would need to get advice on before going into further... but I will definitely bring your document to the attention of the board. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 10:50, 25 April 2014 (BST)

That's true, but hopefully the days when trustees need to pay for purchases on behalf of the charity like printer paper are in the past now! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:27, 28 April 2014 (BST)

When the total costs are published, could someone add a link here so that future volunteers can find it more easily? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:43, 24 April 2014 (BST)

Of course Fae. For your information, it should be done by 22nd of next month. I will endeavour to post an announcement here when the time comes. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 10:50, 25 April 2014 (BST)

I am really pleased to report that all the reports from the Berlin conference attendees from WMUK are now up on the wiki. Together they make a very interesting read and I thank people for the time they took sharing their experiences. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 13:02, 1 May 2014 (BST)

Spambots

I see over 20 spam accounts being created in an hour (this morning) and then the majority creating spam pages with advert links. This level of spam is well beyond the capacity of the small number of active volunteer admins to manage. Is there a plan to quench these? --Fæ (talk) 09:19, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Hey Fae, The tech committee are aware of it becoming an increasing problem. I know that recently a number of static ip's were blocked last week based on the foundations blacklist. I believe the next step will be to implement a number of range blocks to supplement this. We will probably want to employ some bots to do some recent change patrol. I would like to avoid raising the bar to people being able to contribute to the wiki. However a sensible way forward may be to require a captcha for those posting links. There are a number of ways forward. Ill ensure its raised at tomorrows tech committee meeting. Leave any suggestions you might have here. Some, all or non might be taken on board but at least they will have been raised and can be considered along with any ideas the committee discusses :) Seddon (talk) 18:11, 31 March 2014 (BST)

Using the standard blocklist and inheriting rangeblocks from other Wikimedia projects (en.wp and/or Commons) would make sense. Separately maintaining large lists for a small wiki would probably eat up a lot of volunteer time without much benefit. I would avoid CAPTCHA unless this were the only effective solution, though considering how few IPs make a long term positive contribution on this wiki that includes new page creation (none?), I doubt this would be any more than a hypothetical issue. --Fæ (talk) 18:45, 31 March 2014 (BST)

If you can, Fæ, then please consider coming along to the meeting - details here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:20, 31 March 2014 (BST)

Harry Burt has been working on this for a while, and is implementing a script to import the WMF range blocks, with approval from the Tech Committee. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:11, 1 April 2014 (BST)

The root of the problem sees to have been the 'migrating' of this wiki outside the Wikimedia family, with which we seem to have lost just about everything that was useful about having a wiki. Harry Mitchell (talk) 17:13, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Harry, that's harsh! This is still a perfectly well functioning wiki - yes, blocking is now an issue, but what else of the useful functions of a wiki has been lost as a result of the migration? Perhaps this should be viewed as an interesting learning exercise about MediaWiki - this is a problem that any other user of MediaWiki will experience, so what is the best way of solving it, and can that solution be shared back with the mediawiki community to help others? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:59, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Mini pop up banners

Banner seen in action at the Coventry 9 Wikimeet

In response to prospective attendees finding it difficult to find meet-ups (going into a pub alone looking for strangers for instance can be quite challenging), we have acquired some mini-banners for people to use at meet-ups. They are quite discreet but we hope will help. Further design more specifically for Wales & Scotland are pending. Opinions please and if you would like one for your meet-ups contact me. Regards -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 10:51, 2 April 2014 (BST)

I like these. I think they're a great idea. They'd be even better if we had some with the Wikipedia logo on them rather than just WMUK's; the former, obviously, is a lot more recognisable. Harry Mitchell (talk) 17:09, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Hi Harry, thank you very much for your feedback. I'm pleased you like the banners and agree with your comments. We would like to be able to use the Wikipedia globe mark, particularly juxtaposed with the Wikimedia UK logo, but we are currently having a pause on producing new materials with the globe while our trademark agreement with the Wikimedia Foundation is finalised and put in place. An updated draft of the agreement is with the Foundation and I'm hopeful this will be signed, sealed and delivered within the next week or two at most. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 17:25, 3 April 2014 (BST)

Hi Stevie, I gathered that that was the reason from Michael at the Coventry meetup, but I saw no harm in mentioning it again for when the trademark agreement is sorted. Do let us know how you get on with that. Best, Harry Mitchell (talk) 00:53, 4 April 2014 (BST)

I've now received one of these, and they are very nice. :-) Thanks to the office for ordering these. Would it be worth setting up a page that keeps track of where all of these are, so that anyone that is organising a meetup/event but doesn't have one can check to see if one of the attendees will be bringing one or can ask a nearby holder to either attend the event or pass them on to someone that will? I've also asked the office if they would be willing to make cheap mobile phones available to meetup organisers, so that (non-personal) contact phone numbers can be made available on the public meetup pages. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:05, 4 April 2014 (BST)

Affiliate-selected seats on the board of the Wikimedia Foundation

In alternate years, Wikimedia chapters and thematic organizations select two members for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. The candidates for 2014 can be seen here, and questions for individual candidates can be asked by following the links from that page. Organizations including Wikimedia UK have until 15 April to submit any formal pre-voting endorsements. No candidate has, so far as I know, asked us for an endorsement and unless there is a significant groundswell of WMUK community support for any particular candidate, we do not intend to endorse any individual before the opening of the ballot. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:33, 3 April 2014 (BST)

I don't know how these things work, but it looks like other chapters may have had a more active role in this than just posting a message on their local wiki. Obviously it is a bit late for 2014, but for 2016 do we want to come to some sort of collective decision in advance and actually put one or two candidates forward. Or is that sort of thing just counter-productive?

Yaris678 (talk) 22:48, 7 April 2014 (BST)

Probably just a practical issue this time in that Chris Keating is one of the volunteer organisers of the election, and as a result great care has been taken to ensure that the chapter and its trustees have no conflict of interest. There is no reason in principle why we could not endorse a candidate in advance next time if a suitable one steps forward that our community could get behind. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 23:30, 7 April 2014 (BST)

Trademark Agreement between Wikimedia UK and Wikimedia Foundation, Inc

Hello everyone. I am very happy to report that there now exists a Trademark Agreement between Wikimedia UK and Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. This agreement sets out how Wikimedia UK may make use of the Wikimedia project logos, such as the Wikipedia globe icon. The agreement can be seen here. Thank you to the people in the trademarks team at Wikimedia Foundation for their help in making this happen. Thank you also to Jon Davies and Michael Maggs for their input. If you have any questions about the agreement please do get in touch. Thank you. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 16:31, 8 April 2014 (BST)

Thanks for your work on this, Stevie. Is there any chance somebody could produce a short, plain English summary? The legalese is obviously necessary for the avoidance of ambiguity, but it would be great to have a plain English summary that people could refer to if they ever wonder whether an idea or proposal would be acceptable under the agreement.

On a tangent, does this mean we can get some more merchandise in with the Wikipedia logo on it? :) Thanks, Harry Mitchell (talk) 16:54, 8 April 2014 (BST)

Without this wanting to sound like a legal view (!) I would suggest the best bet for a potted summary is on page 5 of the agreement. This sets out some of the uses covered by the agreement. In terms of more merchandise with the Wikipedia globe icon - what would you like? I'm always willing to listen to ideas! Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 16:56, 8 April 2014 (BST)

Addendum - in publications, and other places where practical, we still need to include an attribution that the globe icon (and other Wikimedia project marks) are the trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 16:58, 8 April 2014 (BST)

Well done - it's good to see that this is sorted. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:18, 8 April 2014 (BST)

Survey

I don't think we have ever had the summary demographic data from the survey. Can we have that added to the other results please? Philafrenzy (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2014 (BST)

To give a smattering more context, Philafrenzy is I believe referring to the 2013 members' survey. The main report from which was posted at File:Membership 2013 Full Survey Report.pdf. Katherine is most likely to be the person who can provide the summary of demographic data. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 00:01, 12 April 2014 (BST)

It must be almost six months since the survey and I assume that the data has been looked at by now in the office so can the members also have access to the anonymised summary data please? Philafrenzy (talk) 14:47, 14 April 2014 (BST)

Unfortunately the timely publication of reports appears to be a hole in Strategy monitoring plan, even if the board has got used to always setting SMART targets (T = time limited or timely). If an expected publication of operational reports are delayed, perhaps so long that their use for improvement is lost, it appears that this does not affect the agreed performance indicators for the charity. --Fæ (talk) 15:55, 14 April 2014 (BST)

The office should have deleted the raw data by now, as per the statement at WMUK membership survey 2013/Survey draft ("When the meta report about the results has been produced and any responses that can be followed up stored on your member contact record, all individual responses will be deleted. This will be within 60 days of the survey closing.") ... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2014 (BST)

Not asking for the raw data Mike, which as you say is confidential, just the summary demographic results so that we can add those to the other results. Perfectly normal to keep and reveal those I think. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:16, 14 April 2014 (BST)

Agreed. I was meaning more, if the office hasn't generated the summary demographic data by now, then it may be too late. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:45, 14 April 2014 (BST)

True. I would have expected a detailed analysis, which I thought had been mentioned as an outcome in the survey discussion, particularly as the discussion itself probed into quite low level. However I cannot see that in the text now, so that impression might have been unfounded. --Fæ (talk) 21:59, 14 April 2014 (BST)

I am sure the data was captured, it was a fundamental part of why the survey was run and the other "opinions" part wasn't lost. Anyway, why are we speculating? I don't mind the discussion but my original post was intended simply as a request to somebody in the office to release the data. Could the office please confirm when that part will be released? After all, there were only about c. 57 replies. It's weird when we talk amongst ourselves like this and we know people in the office and trustees read this page and have the answer and they lurk and don't comment. It's a bit passive aggressive to be honest. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:01, 14 April 2014 (BST)

There have been 2 working days since you raised your question. 3 employees were required to spend a long weekend in Berlin, and they may well be having time off in lieu as seems the working practice. --Fæ (talk) 23:14, 14 April 2014 (BST)

Indeed, give them a bit more of a chance. :-) Remember that trustees won't know this level of detail, so it is down to the staff to reply here during their working hours. Fæ, having time off in lieu is a very good working practice that should be praised, although (going off at a tangent) it would be very nice to have a page that lets us know which days staff members are working and quick responses can be expected, and when they're away. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:24, 14 April 2014 (BST)

Time off in lieu is an administrative working practice, not a praiseworthy achievement of itself. Whether it is effective, and if it benefits the employee are separate things to be managed. I have experienced organizations where it has become a burden to the employee, who might rather have their weekend with their family, or a predictable work/life balance, or it ends up being discriminatory against employees with young families who are less likely to be able to take advantage of it.

I had hoped that after more than 3 years since we started discussing it, the shared calendar for the charity would have this sort of information about absence on it, particularly for the CEO where there have been several occaisons I can recall when Jon being away on holiday, and having nobody delegated to handle particular issues, caused avoidable delay and friction. --Fæ (talk) 23:35, 14 April 2014 (BST)

We're getting very much off-topic here! Perhaps this would be worth splitting off into a separate section?

With regards time off in lieu: I was referring to providing time off after a staff member has worked during a weekend, not whether it is a good thing to expect an employee to work during a weekend. Do you think it is a bad thing to give it to a staff member that has opted to work on a weekend/outside of hours? I'd agree with regards the rest of your points about this, although they aren't related to my comment here.

I'd agree with your comments about the shared calendar. I'm getting rather tired of suggesting this now. :-( Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:31, 15 April 2014 (BST)

This is now getting on for a week with no reply from the office, and easter starts tomorrow... :-/ Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:06, 17 April 2014 (BST)

Hi Mike, just a quick note that I have flagged this and someone will hopefully get back to you soon. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:18, 17 April 2014 (BST)

There should be a report available within a week of the end of the Easter break, by Monday 28th. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:36, 17 April 2014 (BST)

Report on the missing part of the survey? Philafrenzy (talk) 11:56, 17 April 2014 (BST)

Yes, that's what I meant. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:21, 18 April 2014 (BST)

See #WMUK membership survey - 2013 demographics report, below, for details of the report. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:37, 24 April 2014 (BST)

WMUK membership survey - 2013 demographics report

In addition to the main part of the November 2013 members' survey, members were asked a series of demographic-related questions, answers to which were provided on a strictly anonymous basis. 54 members gave answers to some or all of the demographics questions. Our report on the responses has now been published and can be found at WMUK membership survey - 2013 demographics report. The main 2013 survey page, with links to the main report, is at WMUK membership survey 2013. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:37, 24 April 2014 (BST)

Thanks for making the effort to put this together. It is nice to see this being done by a volunteer.

Could a reason be given as to why this has been published so long after the survey? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:45, 24 April 2014 (BST)

I am sorry this has taken so long. I think a lack of staff time was contributing to the delay, which is why I volunteered to complete it. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:50, 24 April 2014 (BST)

Thank you for taking this on Michael, it is good that we have data on where we are now so we can know how we are improving (or not) as we go forward. Which leads me to ask are the raw figures that are not publicly reported stored anywhere, so they can be compared with the next survey's responses?

On an organisational matter, it will probably good for future years to establish who will compile both portions of the responses before we publish them. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 12:37, 24 April 2014 (BST)

There are no surprises here I think, except the 17% who report health issues. Was any further info captured about this that would enable those issues to be addressed in terms of event locations, special equipment etc? I also believe that the sexual orientation and change of gender questions are mainly being asked out of political correctness and are both intrusive and do not gather information we can do very much with. For those reasons they should probably be dropped next time. We are also gathering far too much information about educational qualifications for which we have no real use. It's not like people stop learning once they leave formal education. It would be useful to see the results side by side with other years once a core set of agreed questions can be established to allow comparability year on year. Philafrenzy (talk) 19:35, 24 April 2014 (BST)

Unfortunately because 'political correctness' is generally such a quick-fire pejorative it's hard to know what your exact concern is here (maybe expand?). In any case, there might be reasons this data is useful, just as we're interested in diversity in editors, so too in our own community (assuming you buy-in to the need to diversify the community). Re: educational qualifications, we might also care about the no. of PhDs in our membership, again it's also interesting information regarding the diversity of our community, it might suggest gaps in the kinds of people we're reaching. I should look at how these questions were asked again though. Sjgknight (talk) 20:06, 24 April 2014 (BST)

Allow me to clarify Simon. I believe we are asking those sort of questions because they are the sort of questions we think we ought to be asking not because there is anything we can do with the replies. There is a presumption under Data Protection principles that when asking highly personal questions you only do so when you have a very good reason. A generalised assertion of wanting "diversity" or "might be useful" or "interesting" is not really good enough. People are diverse in many ways that we haven't asked about in the survey, and I think each question should have a strong rationale for its inclusion in the survey. The more personal the question the greater the need for a strong justification for including it. That means having some sort of plan to do something with the results. It also means that it is reasonable to believe that the answers have a bearing on the organisation's ability to achieve its goals. As for educational qualifications, we have five categories. Could you please explain what practical difference it makes whether someone ticks the first box or the second, or the second or the third? Philafrenzy (talk) 20:24, 24 April 2014 (BST)

Thanks for the clarification. I think it's best if I just refer back to the conversation about this here, here, note that these were collected confidentially (separately from other results). People are diverse in many ways, but I think it's entirely appropriate we take particular interest in under-represented groups. Re: education education level question planning see here, I don't know what you're suggesting would be better but note you simply select the highest level of attained and this is a very common method to assess education status. Sjgknight (talk) 20:56, 24 April 2014 (BST)

I am suggesting we consider dropping those questions and replacing them with something more useful Simon. A fuller exploration of health or disability or child care or age issues perhaps, all of which might be more directly relevant to ability to participate than gender or orientation questions, or educational qualifications. I stand to be corrected but I believe that the LGBT community is quite well represented in fact, and we know Wikimedians tend to be well educated. We should allow the results of one survey to lead to an evolution in the next whilst preserving a core of basic questions to allow comparability. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:18, 24 April 2014 (BST)

I have some sympathy with your concerns, Philafenzy, now we have seen the actual numbers. As mentioned in the report, most of the line items listed there are grouped for reporting purposes, and the actual questions were in many cases more granular than I was able to publish without breaching confidentiality - so granular in fact that in many cases there were no more than zero or one responses. That's not to say that the survey questions were necessarily wrong ab initio, simply that next time we ought to be mindful of the fact that the numbers are small (only 54 responses) which means we cannot meaningfully dig very deeply into all the detail that people might like to know about. I would also agree that we should ask potentially intrusive questions only where we can (and where we intend to) take action in dependence upon the results, though I am aware that some do not agree with me on that point. On the question of health, the survey did not provide feedback about event locations, nor on equipment apart from the one response about the desirability of a big screen --MichaelMaggs (talk) 22:59, 24 April 2014 (BST)

I must point out Michael that I repeatedly asked for more effort to be put in to increase the sample size up to closer to 100 before the survey was closed to give greater statistical significance to the results. I suggested a number of ways to do that. I hope some of those suggestions will be adopted next time. I am sure the technical wizards in the office known much better than me how to do that. On your other point, Schedule 1 to the Data Protection Act states "Personal data shall be adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose or purposes for which they are processed." Each question needs to pass this test or we are in breach of the law. More generally, the questions in the survey may tend to reflect the preoccupations of those that designed it (including my input). If there were a lot of people with small children in the office and community, for example, we might have more questions about childcare and similar in other areas. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:34, 24 April 2014 (BST)

More in the BBC

Good comments from Stevie in the continuing coverage of government IP edits and nice balanced and factually accurate descriptions of the work of WMUK and Wikipedia. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27203371 Philafrenzy (talk) 10:26, 30 April 2014 (BST)

Thank you, Philafrenzy. I suspect that we haven't seen the last of this story. As more journalists learn about the wonder of edit histories, there may be more to come. It's also been published in The Drum and I've asked for the relevant corrections. I'll share other coverage as it appears. Thank you. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:59, 30 April 2014 (BST)

Objectionable though the changes were, this sort of thing is actually an excellent opportunity to show that our systems work and to increase the profile of the chapter with the UK media. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:52, 30 April 2014 (BST)

G1.2 measuring use of WMUK related files

WMUK sponsored the upload of this picture of the Goddess Kalika, a 16th century watercolour, India.

In the Strategy monitoring plan, the target for percentage of WMUK-related files in mainspace use on a Wikimedia project (excluding Commons) is set at 13% for 2014. Mostly due to some of my batch upload projects being supported by the chapter, uploads so far this year (4 months in) are more than 31,000 images, significantly more than the entire 12 months of 2013. At the moment, GLAMorous shows usage hovering at 1.4%, not unexpected for recent large batch uploads. Personally I would expect that even with a significant promotional campaign by the chapter to get, say, the LACMA uploads in greater use, overall usage would struggle to exceed 5%.

Any thoughts on how to have the board reset/redefine the metrics being used as part of "G1.2" to be more meaningful and realistic? There is a danger that the metrics chosen will make the success of sponsoring large amounts of media being made available to support open knowledge, look like a bad tactical operational choice. --Fæ (talk) 17:18, 1 May 2014 (BST)

The nature of image uploads is that their usage can vary wildly, and of course will accumulate over time. While your uploads may not be successful in gaining usage, after all finding thousands of articles to illustrate is time consuming, other projects may be. The target is a guideline, and if we don't reach it, then we can provide a narrative as to why that is. If the answer is we have uploaded more images than previously and they haven't found uses yet, that's not a bad thing and something I wouldn't be concerned about. Usage in Wikimedia projects increases the reach of these files, but having them on Commons is useful in itself. Hence why usage is one of several metrics under that goal. I am not convinced that we need a kneejerk reaction to adjust this metric a mere three months into the year. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 17:27, 1 May 2014 (BST)

That said, the baseline estimate for 2012-13 was 5%, however the usage for 2013-14 was significantly higher than expected. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 17:28, 1 May 2014 (BST)

I notice that all the other targets/metrics in G1.2 are done in terms of numbers of files, rather than percent of files. This avoids this problem. Yaris678 (talk) 19:51, 1 May 2014 (BST)

Let's see how the figures develop over the course of the year. If as a direct result of your uploads we fail to achieve that particular target, we should explain that in the narrative. If the upload numbers are so high that the percentage target turns out to be unachievable, that would actually be a good thing overall, and next year we can learn and perhaps come up with a better target. Leaving the target in place for now may even encourage people to make more effort to use the uploaded files, which would also be good. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:59, 2 May 2014 (BST)