Engine room

Welcome to the Engine roomThis is a place to ask questions about how we operate as a charity and Wikimedia chapter, and to discuss organizational issues. To discuss our external projects and activities, see how you could get involved or suggest ideas that could help our charitable mission you should head over to the Water cooler.

2013 2014

Archiving this page

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

If you've left comments on this page, then I'd like to suggest that you say thank you! to Richard Nevell for taking the time to archive this page every so often, which prevents it from becoming unusably long. Thanks Richard! :-)

Can I suggest, though, that we think about setting up a bot to automate archiving this page, to save Richard from having to do the job? User:lowercase sigmabot III is currently doing a similar job on enwp - perhaps someone could set up a copy of that bot and operate it here? The source code of the bot is available, so it could be a simple task for someone that knows Python to do? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:08, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thank you to Richard and everyone else who keeps the wheels turning. How often would this page be auto-archived? Archiving does tend to curtail discussions so it might be best not to do it automatically? It's no coincidence that the debate on splitting this page has come back to life when that section is next to be archived is it? Philafrenzy (talk) 18:47, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd suggest auto-archiving threads a week or two after the last comment on them. The water cool splitting discussion was probably more resuscitated by the discussion at the board meeting than it was it appearing at the top of the page; personally I think it might have been more navigable if it had been done in several discussions rather than one big one, as the title of that section is rather outdated now. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:10, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

The above has been moved from Water cooler, which is teh subject under discussion. Does it also apply here? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:04, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the notices Andy, very helpful. I think the above thread does still apply to this page, and this page would probably be the place to raise such issues in the future too. I guess in this transition period there will be some such posts which are slightly out of context where they would not be had they originated on this page. If there are any threads you think really don't work moved across let me know (and I'll keep an eye out too) but I don't think that's the case at the moment (copying to both pages) Sjgknight (talk) 15:51, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

In terms of archiving of sections, then I think it applies to both pages equally. If an archival robot works the same as at least some do on en.wp then the trigger is time elapsed since the latest timestamp in the thread. This means that a discussion can be prevented from archiving before it is complete by manually entering a future timestamp - e.g if the archiving is set to say 1 month without comment, but a response is expected at the beginning of February, entering a timestamp of "12:00, 20 January 2013 (UTC)" will mean it isn't archived before 20 February, regardless of whether anyone has posted in the thread or not. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 14:30, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

OTRS email confidentiality disclaimer

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

After a discussion on meta, WMF Legal have created this disclaimer for wherever OTRS email addresses to volunteer queues are quoted:

Disclaimer: E-mail to this address is reviewed and responded to by volunteers from our user community. Please understand that the Foundation cannot guarantee confidential treatment of any sensitive information you include in your message.

I doubt the wikitable format is essential, but probably best to leave it this way. I note that on Contact us a standard wikimedia.org address is quoted, I recommend the disclaimer is added there under the address, I hesitate to do this myself as I have no operational authority to make changes. If anyone knows of other places on this wiki where we quote OTRS email queues, this disclaimer should be added against each instance.

This is not relevant for addresses directing to Wikimedia UK's email system, however we may wish to consider something similar as a disclaimer for any email queues (such as for the fundraiser) where volunteers in addition to employees have access to email sent to "official" addresses.

For those of you not wanting to plough through the page on meta, the issue here is protection for the volunteers rather than the organization. In particular if there were to be an allegation that private information from emails was misused or compromised, this disclaimer would help avoid the volunteer being the target of personal claims for damages. It is worth noting that, based on the last time I checked it when I was a trustee, volunteers for Wikimedia UK that are acting in recognized roles (such as helping with fundraising queries or running training courses) do have liability insurance provided by the charity and I assume this applies for anyone helping with the chapter email queues. Unfortunately the WMF has no equivalent insurance to help protect volunteers answering email on the main Wikimedia OTRS queues. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 07:48, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fae. I have added the disclaimer - this is sensible. You are right in saying that our insurance covers volunteers for certain roles. However, you say that "Unfortunately the WMF has no equivalent insurance to help protect volunteers answering email on the main Wikimedia OTRS queues.". I do not think this is an accurate statement and I would like to correct it: my understanding from my discussions with Geoff, Sue and others is that the Legal Fees Assistance Program has covered, and continues to cover, the WMF's Email response team members. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:21, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, this was brought up on the meta discussion. However it is not independent liability insurance, or any other type of insurance, and remains discretionary and stated as unreliable, as stated in the definitions under "No guarantees". Scenarios where this would definitely not be used includes if a member of the public alleges misuse by an OTRS agent and the WMF feels there is a case for them or another party to claim damages from the volunteer, this may even become a requirement of the WMF's own insurance cover.

As an issue this was raised in the meta discussion, there was no clear answer from WMF Legal apart from stating that insurance cover was sufficient, and then later confirming that there is no insurance for volunteers. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:45, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of the discussion - I was part of it :-). You asked some very useful questions which needed asking. That said, I still don't think the statement you made was accurate. Regardless, the WMF's insurance or lack thereof is not really an issue for WMUK's: we are insured for our own volunteers doing work on our behalf. To go back to the initial point you made, I'll get Richard N to go around updating the disclaimer on our pages where he finds it. Thanks for letting me know! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 15:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I get it, I am not representing a view of Wikimedia UK and unless the board of trustees wishes to publish a position, I doubt there will ever be one. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:16, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Can I suggest some rephrasing? Saying "the Wikimedia Foundation" in the middle of the WMUK contact page seems a bit odd - perhaps say something like "neither Wikimedia UK nor the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate the global volunteer helpdesk)"? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:33, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I see no reason why it cannot be adapted better to fit this site, so long as we drop a note to WMF legal to say that's how we have chosen to do it. If there is some issue we are unaware of, it would be up to them to advise. --Fæ (talk) 15:38, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Sure Mike, I'll let Richard N know. Thanks for the suggestion. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 15:58, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I think that takes care of it. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 17:07, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Survey results

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

It was mentioned above that the survey results are to be anonymised, and presumably the results collated too, by a volunteer in the new year. Given some of the highly personal information gathered in the survey, I don't think it is appropriate for this job to be done by a volunteer, however trustworthy that person may be. I am sure that respondents would have expected that their replies would remain entirely in-house, be treated with the utmost care, and that the anonymisation would be done by a member of staff operating under the supervision of a senior employee of the organisation who was able to ensure the confidentiality of the data and that applicable data protection rules were followed. That certainly would have been my assumption. If this job has not started, I believe that is how we should do it. I assume that there was no intention to transfer the raw data to the computer of the volunteer, as that would indeed be a grave breach of confidentiality. Philafrenzy (talk) 19:01, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

There are two parts to the survey, one anonymous (the second part, almost entirely demographic information) and the other (the first part) not. Certainly I wouldn't expect, as a volunteer, to see non-anonymised data (whether raw or aggregated) from the second part. Raw data from the first part would present less of a problem, but there is absolutely no reason for any data to be treated in any sort of cavalier way or for any data protection rules to be breached.

What would people think of a volunteer seeing non-anonymised data if that person signed a confidentiality agreement that held them to the same standard and the same/equivalent terms as a staff member? Personally I wouldn't have an issue, but I know I am less protective of my information than some people so I may not be representative. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 21:50, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I realised there may be different parts, treated in different ways. My own view, as above, is that the only safe way to do this is to do the whole thing in house. That should be possible as when last reported there were only 57 replies. I don't think that drawing up a separate confidentiality agreement is really necessary or desirable here and would be of little comfort if the whole lot leaked as the damage would be done. And certainly the raw data should never leave the office on anyone's laptop, in an email or a memory stick, whoever does the job. (I realise it has already been gathered on an external server in the cloud somewhere). Philafrenzy (talk) 22:07, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Getting us started

Now we have an engine room perhaps we can go full speed ahead!

We're still working on the text to go in the "welcome" at the top of this page. Over the next couple of days I'll be moving appropriate threads over from the water cooler to here. cheers Sjgknight (talk) 20:28, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

(Update) I've now gone through the process of moving threads regarding WMUK operational matters to the newly created Engine room, while keeping threads around our activities and getting involved on this page. This will be our first attempt at creating different spaces for different types of discussion, and we're still working on the headers for these pages (the divs now inserted at the top of the page). If you watch the Water cooler you may also want to add the Engine room to your watch list. I've also moved the Water cooler up to the "get involved" section on the sidebar. The new Engine room can be found under 'organisation' on the sidebar. If you think I've incorrectly moved something, or have a suggestion for how we should define and describe these places do let us know (ideally here in the Engine room). Finally, I look forward to seeing people engage on both pages. Cheers Sjgknight (talk) 21:29, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't get it. WMUK doesn't have an engine? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:41, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't have a water cooler either! Sjgknight (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Cheers Simon, let's see if this split ups the engagement level as I hope it will. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 10:12, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Simon, good work on this. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:18, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, and now we have room for an engine:

"Two telegraph units must be installed; one to be installed on the bridge and the other one in the engine room." 86.132.101.239 00:13, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

QRpedia technical and organizational issues (was QRpedia what next? on the Water Cooler)

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

We are now dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's on QRpedia. The next question is how do we make sure the community benefits from it? Do we need training, events etc. We have already started a FAQ page to help those who want to use it but is there more we can do?

Can we get some ideas going?

Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 15:30, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

There's a parallel discussion on the UK mailing list (aside: it's almost always better to have one discussion, and post pointers in other places). I've posted a link there to Wikipedia:QRHowTo and mentioned the outstanding development tickets. By FAQ, you eman, I think, meta:QRpedia. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:45, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

The important milestone here is the domains being transferred to WMUK's ownership, as it's only when that happens that this issue is really resolved. Until that happens, I would recommend that WMUK doesn't do anything to advertise QRpedia, although starting to plan to do things after that milestone makes a lot of sense. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:43, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

As of today, qrpedia.org is registered to Terence Eden. I am puzzled as to why a domain transfer takes more than a day to sort out. Mike used to do this sort of thing live during our board meetings. Is there some problem that the members have yet to be told about? --Fæ (talk) 15:20, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Please note the action here from the last Technology Committee. I have communicated with Tom already again today and as I understand it determining a mutally convenient time and getting hold of Roger had been issues but he was going to re-chase.

The reason we didn't just rush through a transfer was a planned intention to let users know the domain would transfer before it did and I'm awaiting a date to go to users with. Will update on here again tomorrow. Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer. I do not understand why there would be a necessary connection between updating the registered owner and changing of servers. One is a legal record of ownership, the other is the specific operational set up. I look forward to finding out what the date/plan is going to be tomorrow. --Fæ (talk) 17:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

The combination of Xmas, co-ordination of three people and assurances as to the processes we're undertaking means there has been a bit of a delay. I've been dashing all over the place for the last week so it's been a bit difficult connecting with people (kids + christmas = nightmare combination). But I am sure we'll get through this in the next couple of days! --ErrantX (talk) 19:59, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Updating the owner of the domains sadly isn't as simple as just changing the contact information that's available through whois for a domain. It requires transferring the control of the domain to the new owner, which generally means moving it from one domain registrar to another (or at least, moving it from one account to another at the same registrar). This also means transferring from one set of settings to a new set of settings. Yes, this new set can be the same as the previous set, but that does need a lot of precise communication beforehand to make sure that the new set is exactly the same as the old set - and any differences can easily cause a lot of downtime. It's much better if there is sufficient communication time available to those involved in the transfer of a website to ensure that the new host has fully set up the new site on their hosting and can set out the new settings in their registrar's control panel in advance of the transfer taking place.

I don't think that I ever conducted the transfer of a domain during a board meeting - if I did, then it would have been between two accounts that I controlled, which is different from the issue here. I could register a new domain name during a board meeting, but that's also a different issue. The transfer of a domain from one owner to another will always inevitably take a reasonable amount of time time, which should be given to those working on this before they're subjected to criticism. ;-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 01:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Update: Hello all. I have spoken to Roger this afternoon and he will unlock the second domain for transfer tomorrow when he is not occupied with family commitments. Following this Tom will make arrangements to switchover the DNS settings on the weekend (Sunday 22nd) and I will contact known existing users via mailing lists/direct email. There will be a formal announcement on here too. Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 14:43, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

QRpedia domain transfer update

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

Dear all,

In January it was announced that Wikimedia UK had reached an agreement with Roger Bamkin and Terence Eden to accept the donation of the intellectual property rights of QRpedia to Wikimedia UK. WMUK are choosing to do this via a company called Cultural Outreach limited.

This will mean that in future the site qrpedia.org will be managed by Cultural Outreach Ltd and governed by the Wikimedia UK Website Privacy Policy.

Both the domains qrpedia.org and qrwp.org have been transferred to the registrar maintained by Cultural Outreach Ltd as of today. This is a notice that the server hosting for the sites will be changed at 22:00 on Sunday 22nd December. Users should not notice any difference, however there is the very slight chance that in some cases QR codes may not work for short periods during the switch.

If you experience a problem you can report it by emailing Tech@wikimedia.org.uk or by logging a bug at the Wikimedia UK install of bugzilla (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org.uk/)

Thanks all - Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 16:54, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

This is very good news - well done! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:46, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Liability insurance for OTRS volunteers

Does WMUK's liability insurance for volunteers cover project activities where we may be corresponding through OTRS and to what extent?

For example, I sometimes add tickets to images to confirm copyright status on Commons and these may be in support of WMUK projects. I am particularly interested in scenarios with civil suits for damages against our volunteers from correspondents who may feel they have been treated badly or misrepresented or civil suits by the WMF against an OTRS volunteer. It would be useful to have considered responses based on the terms of the current insurance policy (which is no longer available publicly, certainly I do not have a copy) and potentially an official statement from the charity, rather than informal or speculative replies.

I have raised a suggestion for a risk warning notice at m:Talk:OTRS/Volunteering#Liability_and_risk_warning_for_prospective_volunteers.

Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:24, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK only ever intended to have insurances for volunteers while they are "undertaking activities, officially, on behalf of Wikimedia UK". Acting as a volunteer on WMF OTRS is not, has not, and will never be considered as acting on behalf of WMUK. This extend to Wikimedia project activities in general such as editing Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons etc. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 13:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the official clarification. There seems a slight contradiction in the statement as a volunteers can and do take part in projects officially funded by Wikimedia UK which are advised to use OTRS as a process for confirming copyright releases, there are many examples and this is a normal part of our official training courses for volunteers. If all WMF OTRS activities are not and have never been covered by our insurance, then this is a definite change in official policy since we first purchased the insurance when I was a trustee. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 13:25, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fæ. My memory agrees with Katie's. However, if it were part of a WMUK activity then I'd have thought that part of it would be covered, e.g. if someone raised an issue with being advised to contact OTRS then that would be covered, but if someone had been involved on OTRS in processing the release and applying it to the projects then they wouldn't be covered as that couldn't be counted as an action on behalf of WMUK. It would be good to see a clarifying wiki page setting out what counts as a WMUK activity (particularly when talking about 'officially') and what doesn't, though. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:31, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I will discuss this with our insurers when I am back at work next week. In the meantime, and without documents to hand, my recollection is that volunteering for the WMF as part of the Volunteer response team (OTRS) is not and never has been covered by our insurance. Mike is right that this needs clarification, but in the meantime if anyone has any concerns about whether they are covered for a particular activity, they should email myself or Jon and we'll check. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 22:32, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Great, thanks, it would be good to have a clear official statement. The documents always used to be on the office wiki as well as previously available to all volunteers on this wiki. I would recommend keeping them on the office wiki so that they are easy to find for anyone with access and so that any trustee, contractor, staff member or others with access can answer questions about insurance for volunteers on our projects.

As an active volunteer can I have a copy of the current insurance policy as it relates to my activities please? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I will discuss this with our insurers too. Last time I spoke with them, they advised against circulating copies of our full policies, especially online - we wouldn't be able to ensure they were kept securely. I will try and get an answer for you. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 18:19, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I was asked to remove a statement that I had professional indemnity insurance from my website, even though it was a legal requirement for me and everyone else in the same profession to hold it. I think the insurers here are probably more worried that publicising the cover will encourage claims somehow, rather than anything else. Why would the policy details need to be kept secure really? Philafrenzy (talk) 00:56, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Insurance details do not need to be kept secure from the insured parties, in fact I believe there is a legal requirement on an insurance company to provide access to the policy to the insured (i.e. volunteers for Wikimedia UK). My impression from this discussion is that Wikimedia UK has refused to provide a copy of the insurance policy, or access to it, in response to a request from an insured party. As the legal definition of insurance is a contract between the insured and the insurer, if the insurer is now requiring Wikimedia UK to keep the contract secret from the insured, then the contract can be considered invalid.

If someone were to provide me with the name of the insurance company and the policy number, then I am happy to offer to spend my time giving them a phonecall (as an insured party) and provide some factual feedback here, rather than wasting any more employee time on this bureaucracy/game of Chinese whispers. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 06:52, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, as I said earlier, "I will discuss this with our insurers when I am back at work". I am now back at work, have dealt with the most urgent tasks, and can focus on requests from volunteers: I have also received a reply from the insurers. I must impress upon you the need for patience, this sort of thing can't be hurried.

You will be pleased to know that I have spoken to the insurers and that although they have reservations about making the policy public, I have discussed this with Jon, and we have agreed that the risk to the charity is minimal. I will email you a copy of the policy as soon as I have time - I expect this will be in the 24 hours. You will note that you are probably not covered for the data protection risks that doing OTRS volunteer work for the WMF involves. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 16:05, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Sent! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 16:34, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Received. Unfortunately this is not the relevant policy. You have emailed me a copy of the current privacy protection/breach insurance (supplied by Hiscox) that as I recall the charity only started purchasing after the WMF made it a requirement of payment processing. It is a form of technical insurance for data, which specifically excludes liability resulting from any services provided by the charity, so it not only excludes volunteers from its cover, it actually excludes services from employees or contractors.

Could you supply the correct insurance policy that is relevant to the activities of the charity and to which I believe I and all other active volunteers are insured parties? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 17:26, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Of course. There are a few redactions I'll have to make, but I'll try and get it to you in the next few days - it's a much bigger policy and is printed on weird embossed paper so I'll need to scan the pages individually (they don't go through the feeder properly). Out of interest, what is it you'd like to check? Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 19:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

As an insured party I would like to exercise what I believe is the normal legal advice that parties to a contract read the contract. I believe all unpaid active volunteers for the charity would be sensibly advised that they should understand and have access to any insurance policy that applies to their activities before volunteering to deliver services or benefits on behalf of the charity. Should I ever be sued for damages when working as an unpaid volunteer for the charity, for example as a result of volunteering to support an editathon, when I have records showing every reason to believe that I am covered by appropriate insurance, I do not want to be caught out by only then finding out that the Chief Executive had made a decision at some point to renegotiate the terms of the policy and not tell me or any other volunteer about it.

That the insurance company Wikimedia UK has chosen as a supplier appears to be putting up apparently arbitrary obstacles in the way of sharing the insurance policy with the insured parties, I find not only bizarre but in all likelihood would be found unacceptable behaviour by the Financial Services Authority. If you are defining policy for Wikimedia UK, it may be worth checking directly with the FSA on this point, rather than relying solely on what might be a misguided middle-manager within the insurance company. --Fæ (talk) 20:47, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

As I have said, I will be sending you the insurance policy as soon as I can. No-one has put up any barriers. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:03, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The barrier as described in this thread has been introduced by the insurance supplier by insisting that Wikimedia UK remove the policy from the website, where members and volunteers could easily access it, and volunteers have to ask for a special redacted version to be created which required authorization from the Chief Executive which may or may not be granted based on unspecified criteria and may take several days. --Fæ (talk) 11:41, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

December board meeting

The minutes of the December board meeting are now available at Minutes 7Dec13 and Minutes 8Dec13. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 12:16, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Michael for posting these. It's a shame to see that WMUK has moved away from the good practice of specifying who voted which way on decisions made at the meeting; it's sad that this transparency has been lost. It's good to see that the transparency of the meeting reports will be improved, though. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:17, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Mike, on your first point, I think that this has been happening for several board meetings now. I don't recall why or how it started happening, though. Maybe there was an old board decision that I have forgotten, but if it turns out that procedure has just drifted without discussion then I will ask the board to have that discussion. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Has it? In past meetings the names have been omitted if it were unanimous, but recorded if anyone objected or abstained. E.g. see the 'Approval of 2012-13 Accounts' section of Minutes 13Jul13 or the 'AM potential CoI' section of Minutes_14Sep13 (of course, it's particularly important to clearly and publicly note who abstains when there's COI issues!). I can't spot a board decision on this issue in the recent minutes... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:36, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the earlier minutes, this does seem to have been drift rather than definite decision. I will bring this up at the next meeting, as we clearly do need to be consistent. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:02, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Mike Peel (talk) 16:30, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I share Mike P.'s concerns; and would also note that "there was an in camera discussion" should be expanded (for example "there was an in camera discussion of staff salaries"; "...of a potential financial donation". Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:17, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

+1, let's not let our the values drift such that we become just a boring, needlessly bureaucratic or opaque charity. --Fæ (talk) 17:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

The Engine room needs to look prettier

We need a nice Engine room picture to go on the top of this page. Can we get some suggestions going? We could post ideas here in a gallery. (ps the picture above is disqualified as it appears to show a wheelhouse not an engine room). MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:59, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

• Suggestions for images:

• 

  Suggestion 1

Does it matter if it is a U Boat? Philafrenzy (talk) 19:23, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

So long as I don't have to spend another weekend in a gigantic phallic object dressed as a German sailor. --Fæ (talk) 19:32, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Interesting, Aksel Berg started out as an officer on a submarine, and went on to become one of the pioneers of cybernetics! Leutha (talk) 20:52, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

And was imprisoned by Stalin for three years in the meantime, becoming a government minister immediately on release. Here, it normally works the other way round! Philafrenzy (talk) 22:39, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Format of the newsletter

Just received the latest newsletter. I know somebody in the office spent a long time doing this so I hope nobody is offended by my comments, but I think we can do a lot better, particularly in presentation. I printed a few pages as a pdf and uploaded them here. This is how it appears on screen in a typical widescreen laptop. I hope we can start a discussion about the appearance and content of the newsletter. Here are my initial thoughts:

• On the plus side, it's much better than it used to be!
• The appearance is clunky and amateurish and not in keeping with what you would expect from a national charity.
• The text wrapping around images is poorly formatted and the acres of white space either side of the content just looks weird.
• This does not look like any other newsletter I get from anywhere. That must mean something.
• It's boring, though that might just mean that we are boring.
• We don't need the message from Jon at the start, you lose half your readers there straight away.
• The content may now be too pared-down.
• It could include a list of upcoming events in the body of the message and some kind of index at the start.
• Should we pay to have properly designed member and donor newsletters prepared?
• I would be interested to know what newsletter donors get, the wrong one could be costing us a lot more than the cost of having a proper one designed.
• As this is the only regular communication with members, it seems a pity not to get it right.

Philafrenzy (talk) 00:02, 8 Janua ry 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this, I felt the last member's newsletter displayed poorly and seemed clunky. As the charity has several professionals employed full time in communications, the member's newsletter is a good chance to demonstrate these skills. --Fæ (talk) 07:45, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks Philafrenzy for your comments. I think that the member newsletter has come along way in a short space of time - considering that we didn't actually have one until fairly recently. There are some issues with the template which I know Katie is going to be looking at. But I can promise you that I have seen much, much worse. I'm sorry that you find the content boring. What would you suggest to make it more engaging to you? I quite like the mix, and other members have reacted positively, but getting more detailed feedback on what you think works, and doesn't, might be helpful. Also, what do you mean when you say that the content is too pared down? Do you mean in the email leads or the wiki version? It's a good idea to include events in the message and I'm sure Katie will note that for future editions. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Secondly, Fae - could you let me know where those "several professionals employed full time in communications" have been hiding please? Only I feel they aren't really pulling their weight and I'd quite like to have a word with them to see if they can take on a few of the things I don't have time for. If you see them, please pass on my contact details as I'm very keen to speak with them. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I've said this before in response to the members survey consultation where I responded to both Fae and Philafrenzy at great length. Well balanced feedback should include what doesn't work and what does. Do Philafrenzy and Fae have any positive comments? More importantly, beyond critique, can you offer more time to help improve the content again (not the template) to make it engaging? (I should note you are both past contributors I think (?) already so thanks for that!)

Katherine, could you please remove the implied criticism of Fae and myself in the paragraph immediately above. It's not appropriate as the initial post is intended to start a discussion on exactly the matter of what can be done better and includes several ideas on that subject. Thank you. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:03, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Now, as to the rest:

There was a competition to redesign the members newsletter banner in July which drew no responses.

The donors newsletter banner was professionally designed in 2012.

The members newsletter has been around for a year now. I believe Katy will be running a survey for feedback as a result. Perhaps it might be best to see if these are personal opinions or more widely reflected?

I don't think a differently designed template is bad idea providing it worked with Civi. Whether its worth doing should probably be based on the survey.

The donor newsletter design will continue to be led by testing results, surveys and feedback. I will be making some proposals in the new financial year (1st Feb) for how this is managed anyway so I'll have to ask you to hold onto your hats until then. Ta Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 11:23, 8 January 2014 (UTC).

I have responded to the above. My edits, and those of other contributors and employees, have been deleted and can be found in the page history for anyone interested. Speaking as a past Chair, I believe this is the first time that any Chairperson of this charity has chosen to exercise direct censorship on this website without there being an independent request to do so; if this action itself is worth discussing or reviewing, I suggest it is raised in a separate thread. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:11, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Action of the Chair to censor comments

I requested it. The The board and chief executive have a duty to protect the working environment of staff. Sjgknight (talk) 14:21, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Simon, thanks for your explanation (which I have broken out to its own thread). I never imagined that tampering with discussion threads on this wiki was a duty of the trustees, I am disappointed to see this is the choice now taken by the current trustees rather than leaving this to the CEO, which as I understood it when I was a trustee was where we agreed the fully delegated responsibility and authority for operational issues including personnel issues and complaints. As I recall, Katherine requested that an administrator look at removing a disguised apparent swearword from a comment by Philafrenzy, this would have been a perfectly reasonable action for an administrator to take. It did not require the Chair to be seen to intervene, and in my view neither did the entire dialogue, including comments from employees, require censorship or suppression.

Just to interject, can I make clear that this was an expression of exasperation about how things work here and not about any particular individual. I remain exasperated and frustrated. I may take up kick boxing. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not asking for the "critical" discussion to be restored, I am sure everyone is already tired of it, however I am concerned at seeing our current board of trustees using their authority to override or suppress free discussion of issues on this website or to be exercising their authority over such detailed operation issues that can be easily managed by volunteer administrators, or could be resolved through discussion with the people involved, if necessary by email, who would in all probability have removed their comments themselves if requested. If employees feel that comments are overly hostile, then the process should be that they avoid responding in any such thread and report this to the CEO for his action, rather than asking questions and personally engaging in the creation of a hostile environment.

The members of the charity should and must feel free to raise concerns with the operations of this charity. If we are unable to do so on this "Engine room" or anywhere else on this public wiki, then I suggest we advise members to express their concerns more freely by using the public email list wikimediauk-l, which employees or trustees do not have ultimate control over, even if at least one member of staff is an administrator there and I imagine he would wisely recuse from acting on any issue directly related to criticism of the operations of the charity.

Thanks for your help. --Fæ (talk) 14:38, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I confirm that members of the charity and volunteers are absolutely free to raise concerns with the operations of this charity, and that this page is the appropriate place for that to happen. I have deleted some text in compliance with the duty of the board, as employers, to protect the working conditions of individual staff of the charity. Neither I nor I hope anyone else will be continuing public discussion on this thread. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:50, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Your actions indicate that members are in fact not literally "absolutely free to raise concerns". Could you confirm that the board's duty as employers with regard to working conditions is fully delegated by the board of trustees to the CEO? If as the Chair and speaking on behalf of the board and responsible for your own actions here, you prefer not to answer any more questions on this topic, then it seems reasonable for members interested to continue this on the independent wikimediauk-l list. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:58, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Just to point out: I think this was accidentally removed and added it back, but Fæ has removed it again saying 'Please leave this to the Chair as his action on behalf of the board of trustees. My later comment I would like restored if these are.'. Over to you, User:MichaelMaggs. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:24, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Removing Richard N's comment was indeed a mistake, but he is content to leave things where they lie now. No further action needed. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Please note that this means that you (acting for the board of trustees and overriding the role of the Chief Executive) have chosen to restore employee comments made after volunteers had made responses, without restoring the comments from volunteers; what is left is a partial view of the conversation. I would prefer you to delete the whole conversation rather than misrepresenting me or philafrenzy in this way. If employees are free to express their views and opinions on this website, but not members of the charity, then this is no longer an open wiki. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:00, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Fæ, I've looked through the rest of what was deleted, and I can't see anything that replies to what Richard N. said. Maybe I'm missing something? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I did not mention replies to Richard N's comment. If you note the times of comments made that have been deleted by the Chair, comments by employees have been restored which were posted after other comments by volunteers that have now been deleted. Consequently the order of events is compromised and the discussion left on display is a misleading representation of events. To avoid misrepresentation any truncation should be to a fixed specific time with an explanation of why, or remove or restore the entire discussion; at the moment what we have is deliberate cherry picking by preferring comments made by employees and suppressing comments made by volunteers (of which only one comment has been highlighted as a possible problem with regard to "protect the working environment of staff", a role that by existing policy is the job of the Chief Executive to implement, not trustees). --Fæ (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Noted. I have re-deleted Richard's comment so that the thread is effectively now cut at a single point in time. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. As you have declined to answer my question with regard to the trustees acting in an operational role we previously delegated to the CEO, I presume this thread is effectively closed. --Fæ (talk) 18:44, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Key Performance Indicators for the Chief Executive

Could a member of the board of trustees please share with the members the top level Key Performance Indicators that the Chief Executive (and the charity) is measured against?

Now that Jon has been in the role for 3 years, it seems reasonable for the members to be able to see this published in a trend report spanning the duration of his employment. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 07:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The latest information on metrics can be found here. We will not be giving a running commentary before the strategy and metrics are open to public consultation in February, but I can say that the task force has met twice already and is meeting for a time this week. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Michael. The section you link to mentions metrics but not key performance indicators. It is not an automatic conclusion that the latter would ever be produced from the former. Could you confirm that Key Performance Indicators for the Chief Executive is an intended outcome, and that these will be published and tracked publicly so that the members of the charity can read them? By the way, as a past trustee I am fully aware that these were required as part of Jon's contract agreed three years ago and so are overdue. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The Water cooler needs to look prettier

We need a nice Water cooler picture to go on the top of this page the Water cooler. Can we get some suggestions going? We could post ideas here in a gallery. -MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

It's somewhat worrying that the WMUK Chief Exec has enough spare time to add pictures to nearly every section of this page! I'm sure there's much better things to be getting on with... :-( (Plus, they get in the way of leaving comments!) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 07:15, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate Mike's viewpoint. This is a discussion page, and unless the thread is directly connected to a particular image it is not normal on wikis to illustrate each thread as if they were a blog posts. MichaelMaggs' suggestion to put a photo at the top of the page is more in line with the way we see village pumps working on other projects. Although bandwidth is unlikely to me a massive problem for most readers or contributors, several photographs on a long page may discourage readers from accessing using mobile devices and could make the page unreadable or subject to time-outs if they are relying on a lower speed mobile connection. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think wiki thumb transclusions like this actually mean that most browsers will download the full size image file before rendering this page, so these images do add significantly to bandwidth and rendering times.

I am sure now Jon has been CE for 3 years, as per the lead item of the member's newsletter, he does not advice with regard to the norms of wikis. --Fæ (talk) 07:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

On the technical point, the images are automatically resized by MediaWiki - there's no downloading the full images. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:13, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I’m inclined to think that where there are obvious images it's no bad thing to include them just as we add images to Wikipedia articles (or indeed blog posts). It makes the page more attractive and is minimal work particularly given the images can be used on the pages/events/activities they refer to, if it was lots of extra work certainly that woudld be bad. Given the markup goes at the top of the sections I'm not convinced it gets in the way of leaving comments(?), useful to consider if there are other problems though? Incidentally this discussion should really be moved to the Engine room (i.e. I think the whole discussion around the water cooler image should be there). Sjgknight (talk) 08:30, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

My comment about it getting in the way was because the image here is after the first comment, so my comment was straight after it which was a bit confusing to me. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Ah fair enough, yes I agree that's to be avoided where possible (particularly given it'd be good to have noobs posting on the water cooler!). I think this is the only one on here though. Sjgknight (talk) 08:48, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Mike don't worry it only took a few minutes of time in gaps doing other things. As to the images I am really happy to take tech advice - we don't want people to be put off by download times. On the other hand we need our watercooler to be a busy and buzzing place that is attractive to come to. The thumbnails draw attention to the different subjects and when new things come up help draw attention to them. Our website is sooooooooooooooo boring. If it is to be a way of encouraging new volunteers (and members) it has to be a lot better and this is one tiny step to drag it into the 21st century. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 08:43, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I have withdrawn my post above after this complaint by MichaelMaggs who felt it was sarcastic. My feeling is that Jon's criticism of this site is that it is "sooooooooooooooo boring" and needs to be dragged into this century appears dismissive of Mike's point by trivializing it. I believe Mike and I do live in this century and have quite a strong awareness of modern technology, I doubt we could be considered terribly out of date compared to anyone else who contributes to the charity. Perhaps this aspect of his communication style could be improved? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:04, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, Jon's comments about the site are appropriate and allude to problems that anybody with a professional background in web usability should be able to recognise, despite your eagerness to trivialise or deny them. Yes you "do live in this century and have quite a strong awareness of modern technology" and it's interesting that that's your case for expertise. This is not to say that adding images to discussion pages is a solution. I agree with what you say below that accessibility is a problem - across all Wikimedia sites, not just this one - and should be a priority. Other points about the appeal and usability of the site deserve the charity's attention too, bearing in mind that the site doesn't exist for its own sake but to showcase our work and invite an ever-growing audience to take part in or support it. Calling for improvements to Jon's communication style is supremely ironic given your quite desperate contributions on this wiki. Take this well-intentioned advice from a friend: that you've lost perspective on what is or is not appropriate communication style. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I have made no case for my expertise, only responded to Jon Davies' dismissive style that I would not expect from the CEO of a national charity. Your comment about "quite desperate contributions" is not friendly; my friends do not deride me in public. --Fæ (talk) 15:59, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for moving this Michael, an unusual case hopefully there won't be too many of this type, but generally I think if people want to talk about the function and form of the water cooler it should go here. Sjgknight (talk) 13:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

• Suggestions for images:

• 

  Suggestion 1

• 

  Suggestion 2

Being "pretty" versus ensuring access for all contributors

I ran a short test a couple of hours ago by attempting to reply in the above discussion using an Android tablet. The mobile edit interface is not available (can this be fixed?) so the edit box's behaviour for this website is erratic and becomes unusable, in my experience, for anything other than very short sections. Pretty images can make access more difficult, particularly for mobile devices. I believe mobile access is important, I have often dropped timely replies in discussion on Commons from my tablet and sometimes my mobile phone, this has been particularly useful when stuck on a train and catching up with discussions. Though the recent actions to prettify discussions on this site with tangentially connected photographs may be liked by some, I suggest that we define some basic house-style guides for different types of pages on this wiki, and consider testing our accessibility from mobile devices and tablets to ensure that style guidelines are effective.

It is entirely possible, for example, for the main page of this site to use different css rules, or even display quite a different page, depending on the platform accessing it, and these options are worth considering. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fae, entirely agree this sounds sensible. From your post it sounds like the issue is the interface in general, not the newly added images, but I'm not sure that's what you mean? Regardless, accessibility for screen readers, etc. is also important and I don't know how we do on that front. Given articles, etc. have inline images there must be ways we can include images in these discussions (whether we want to or not) while still ensuring they're accessible no? I think the tech-committee may have a discussion about accessibility at some point. Sjgknight (talk) 15:00, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I would include images as an issue, as I mentioned in my comment. A house-style guide would cover when images were best used and when not, and may put limits to the types of image or other media file to be transcluded in certain situations. A discussion page may have an entirely different style to a proposal page or a static report. --Fæ (talk) 15:03, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

(EC) Hi Fae, I understand (I think) but I think what I was saying was that your current major issue was just flat out being able to access the mobile interface - not that the introduction of images had created a new problem on that front. Of course the broad point re: good practice for accessibility generally and mobile interfaces stands. Sjgknight (talk) 15:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

All good points. Thanks. Any thoughts from anyone as who who might have the willingness and expertise to start work on a page of recommendations? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:07, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I vaguely recall exactly the same discussion a year or more ago with regard to house styles. Mike Peel, our historian, can probably supply a link, or I think there was some preliminary work on the Office wiki by Stevie that you may want to review before starting a new exercise. As this is a closed wiki I do not have access to, I am only going by frail meat-memory.

By the way, I believe that house-styles for communications would normally be under the domain of the communications manager, which though he has changed his title to head of the department of External Relations, is probably still within his remit and would be better managed by him rather than being directed by unpaid volunteers. --Fæ (talk) 15:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Not that I can recall, I'm afraid. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 12:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Time is a bit malleable, the discussion could have been 3 years ago. Searching about finds Water_cooler/2012#House_style but no follow-on I can see. I am fairly convinced there is more somewhere on the office wiki, though it may have been part of our preparing terms of reference for some employees, certainly this came up more than once when I was interviewing applicants for the Communications Manager position. --Fæ (talk) 12:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Declarations for paid editing and related advocacy

In the light of the recent announcement by the Wikimedia Foundation that paid editing is not acceptable for employees, and the apparent swift termination of a long term employee, I believe it appropriate for the Board of Trustees of Wikimedia UK to agree a policy at the next board meeting to require employees, contractors and trustees to publicly declare any current or past paid editing activities, or related unpaid advocacy that may represent a potential conflict of interest.

The risk to the charity by allowing confidential declarations limited to the board in this area, or to "overlook" past paid editing (even if some years ago) is that a current board member, employee or contractor may be perceived to be deliberately misleading the Wikimedia community. Were this to be exposed then Wikimedia UK may suffer reputational damage if seen to be supporting procedures that protect this secrecy.

Considering the recent resignation of an Arbcom member, after avoiding a public declaration of off-wiki accounts where they were both publicly and non-publicly posting about matters related to Wikimedia projects, I would hope that the board would require employees and contractors to similarly interpret "related advocacy" as applying to "secret" accounts elsewhere whenever they can be seen to relate to Wikimedia projects or Wikimedia UK matters. The board of trustees will already be aware that such undeclared accounts exist.

Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Can you rewrite the first paragraph without assuming that readers already know what you're talking about? Thanks in advance, MartinPoulter (talk) 15:02, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

How about starting with "A long term employee of the WMF has quickly left their employment after it was revealed that they have been editing Wikipedia on behalf of paying clients, a public statement has been issued by the WMF here." If this is still unclear, it might be better to ask on the related thread on wikimediauk-l.

You may find the recent discussion on the Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard or today's article on The Daily Dot helpful for context too. --Fæ (talk) 15:50, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that Fae. I personally wouldn't want to promise that such a policy could be delivered and agreed upon by the next board meeting. But it is a risk the board needs to consider and it should certainly be discussed. Seddon (talk) 22:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking it seriously. Rather than attempting a full policy, which I agree may take a while if community consultation and a check with employment law is needed, I suggest that the board discuss the couple of basic principles, perhaps as a short resolution statement, along with understanding the WMF's position at that time. With the principles agreed, policy can then be updated as necessary (such as COI policy, trustee code and employment policies). It would be useful from the member's perspective if this could remain as open a process as possible.

Lastly, there is no need for WMUK to have identical policies to the WMF, indeed our independent approach and needs for this governance issue may result in major differences in how paid editing declarations are managed and the circumstances in which they are considered legitimate; for example we may fund projects where contractors support the project, are declared paid editors, and this is part of their valued skill sets. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I made a reply on the UK email list, and I'd like to add to it here. To get started, I'm a contractor for WMUK, and tomorrow will be beginning fresh contract work on the VLE. So I'm within the scope of what Fæ is raising here. None of my edits on Wikipedia and the other projects has been for pay or other consideration.

Here is what I posted to the list:

/begins

On the details of the Sarah Stierch affair, which has been in the Independent for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Stierch

"Long-term employee" seems not quite right. She had a one-year fellowship in 2012. The Independent report said she was engaged in an evaluation project for editathons, which is true enough. I don't know the full extent of her recent portfolio of WMF activities. Stierch, as the WP article makes clear, is a significant activist over a range of things, and working for the WMF has been part of it. As usual, Wikipedia cannot be relied on for all information one might wish to have.

No doubt the WMUK Board needs to think this through. The implication that the "net" should be cast wide to look for COI, of those involved in the WMUK in any fashion, of course has different sides: a prudential approach is one of them.

As a coauthor of the original (2006) COI guideline on enWP, I have always been interested in the distinctions between "potential conflict of interest" (which is in a sense part of the human condition), perceptions of COI, and concrete "conflict of interest" in the guideline sense. The last of these relates rather precisely to the actual circumstance that someone is editing the project content in such a way as to prioritise outside interests over the best interests of the project. E.g. advocacy where there should be none.

/ends

To move further into the issue: I think there is a potential downside whatever is done, i.e. this is not a situation that can be dealt with simply by process. Let me explain my reasoning on that first. There are possibly unintended consequences of the approach Fæ is proposing, which you could call "clean hands".

And this seems evident in relation to "in residence" positions. One extreme consequence comes from reasoning this way: Wikimedians in residence are typically paid, and are typically editing, so they are paid editors. Now we don't accept that as a case for exclusion of the "in residence" concept, given that Wikimedians in residence are generally exemplary members of the community, of high reputation from the internal point of view, and will in any case know much better than most people what kind of editing is best for Wikipedia and the other projects.

Further, we probably don't accept that WMUK should distance itself from the "in residence" concept, or the people involved. So if they are also applying for staff and contractor positions at WMUK, such positions are going to be a plus on the CV. So far, so good.

But I noticed something about the tender document for the JISC Ambassador position, which is a kind of "in residence with roving brief" position, hence the name. The Ambassador was supposed to coach JISC staff in editing, but not to edit on JISC's behalf themself. The tender being a joint WMUK/JISC effort, this clearly represents a conscious slant in the direction of "clean hands".

I disagree with what was done there. If we actually want to avoid editing that is not only paid, but is advocacy on behalf of (say) an institution, this is the wrong way to go about it. As I have said, the generic "in residence" position in an institution ought to be held by a trusted community member; and it makes no sense to delegate editing about the institution to the staff of the institution, who will have only a fraction of the ideas of what is suitable editing, and far less a stake in the outcome being better for Wikimedia content. Anyone "in residence" will have a reputation to lose if they overstep the line and do advocacy, and I know of one who made it clear at interview that there is such a line.

To sum up: let us concentrate on the outcomes for the projects. We know perfectly well what is to be avoided: the "foreign body" in the community which can exist if there are editors actively cutting across basic content policies. That is why the issue is heated. It will not help, though, if too much finger pointing leads the chapter in the UK to overcompensate. Which in the detailed drafting in the JISC case seems to me to have already happened. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

January seems to show a decline in the number of events

If we examine Events/Archive just for January events, the heyday of Wikimedia UK appears to have been back in 2010-2012 when we doubled the number of events we were delivering each year, though this may be a "January" phenomenon. We have more employees now and claim to have more active volunteers, but the numbers have been static or going down rather than up, let alone doubling. So what do others think these numbers tell us about the organization's growth and performance over the last 3 years, compared to the 3 years before that? In comparison December shows a similar pattern, doubling each year until 2012 when it becomes static. In the last 3 years the budget for the charity has quadrupled, but this does not seem to have resulted in any proportionate growth in this potential Key Performance Indicator.

The table below is a sample and different samples may give significant variation. For a useful Key Performance Indicator for the charity this would need to be turned into a full trend chart of quantity of external events going back over the last 5 years showing the seasonal pattern. Once internal facing events such as board meetings and probably wikimeets are removed, the remaining numbers will be far more meaningful. It's about an hour or two of work to set up and then about 15 minutes a month to maintain as a report for the board of trustees. --Fæ (talk) 08:13, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Year	No. of events in January	No. of events in December
2009	1	1
2010	3	4
2011	6	8
2012	12	14
2013	11	14
2014	8	-

This is definitely an interesting statistic to measure (and it should be measured!), but bear in mind that it's not a measure of what's been achieved, but what has been done. It almost doesn't matter how many events are run if they all achieve a lot, e.g. in terms of number of people impacted by the events, number of new editors, number of existing editors retained due to the event, amount of content produced on the sites as a result of the events, etc. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 06:31, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that counting events is not great, but it is available when hardly any long term external-facing metrics are being published. This comes down to our continued poor and inconsistent measurement of outcomes (as in the purpose of any charity is the new outcomes it delivers to beneficiaries, in our case the benefit to public knowledge, not how many jobs we create, how many partners we have, how many lunches we can get with politicians, or how many articles we can get in the national press). It still amazes me that after more than 3 years of having a full time CEO, he and the board of trustees has yet to agree a set of firm and credible key performance indicators, or any firm performance targets. This makes the job of reviewing the CEO's performance almost entirely subjective and a complex matter of personal judgement of management competence rather than independent measurement. For example, though the FDC bid contains a number of measurable commitments, there is no sense that these are tied to measurement of performance of the charity or the CEO, indeed a number of these measurable commitments have yet to have any official reports. --Fæ (talk) 12:23, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

an interesting and valid debate and we are working hard to establish clear metrics for what we do. Staff and trustees listen carefully to these discussions. One point of correction; I have been CEO for a little over two years not three and whatever my personal merits both outside consultants have commented on how rapidly and well WMUK developed during that period. So let's remember to celebrate our achievements. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 10:41, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Fortunately events have been reported publicly for the last 6 years, it does not require any further hard work to report them as they are already reported. As a Key Performance Indicator (rather than a simple metric) reporting the trend of quantity of external-facing events and their benefits as measurable outcomes for Wikimedia projects is one of the most basic I can imagine. This is a KPI that is cheap to report and effective for trustees to monitor operations, and does not need the clock to be reset to zero, so this means that this year's performance can easily be compared to 2013, 2012, 2011...

Jon, I made absolutely no comment on your "personal merits", re-framing my comment above in this way confuses a criticism of process with a person. Members should be free to highlight issues with the charity's performance or how the CEO's performance can be measured in a more meaningful and transparent way, without it being turned into a defensive argument of personalities. --Fæ (talk) 11:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

1st June is Global Sharing Day

File:I love sharing at republica 13.jpg

Discussion resulting from initial post at Water cooler#1st June is Global Sharing Day

This seems to be a day devoted to reciprocity of asset sharing (car shares, food sharing), rather than preserving the sum of human knowledge. Isn't getting into bed with these people the same as becoming affiliated with Freecycle? I can understand why piggybacking on the co-incidental title of the day might seem attractive from a PR perspective, but this feels oddly tangential to Wikimedia UK's mission. --Fæ (talk) 18:32, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more. Knowledge sharing is one of the most important types of sharing there is. If it wasn't then the Wikimedia projects and movement wouldn't have such importance and would have so many people involved. Making the case for free knowledge is one of the most useful things we can do. It can hardly be called tangential. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 18:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I did not say that making the case for free knowledge is tangential; I did not serve as a trustee, or help set this charity up in the first place without believing in making the case for free knowledge. Please note my sentence with regard to "getting into bed". I was going by the self description on Benita Matofska's website where it is also clear that Compare and Share is a limited company (not a charity) who no doubt would benefit from adding the Wikimedia brand name value to their portfolio. --Fæ (talk) 19:08, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The implication being that we shouldn't work with anyone that isn't a charity? This is a global initiative with global participation. It costs nothing for Wikimedia UK to be involved. Why shouldn't sharing knowledge be seen on a par with sharing food or other assets? We talk a lot about member numbers and volunteer numbers. This is the kind of initiative that can take our work to a wider audience that is already interested in the sharing of "assets" - an audience that is more likely to share our aims and values and therefore more likely to become participants in the future. If other people benefit from that - great. Let's make everyone happy. It's worth noting also that it's not that long ago Wikimedia UK was a limited company. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 09:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

(Just for reference, WMUK is still a Limited company Stevie, Limited by guarantee.) Philafrenzy (talk) 18:17, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

They appear to be company number 07494345. It's not clear whether they are for- or non-profit - if they are for-profit then that's definitely something to be wary of, particularly if working with them ends up getting media coverage. But tapping into their community and encouraging them to contribute to the Wikimedia projects would make a lot of sense. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:46, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

The strategy of the Compare and Share private company appears to be to create a viral marketing campaign verging on being a pyramid scheme ("we're asking each partner to bring a network / another partner on board"). They are pushing for partners (as they say on their website) who have a number 1 objective of "Promote yourself"; it is free to become a partner, you just send in your company logo, so this does not seem particularly meaningful. Anyone can create a "National Day" to support a marketing campaign, for example Marmite encouraged a National Marmite Day. Before launching Wikimedia UK events or partnering with an organization, Wikimedia UK should do basic background checks and be able to answer these questions and understand fully what the Wikimedia brand is supporting.

Lastly these are the types of questions (is this a charity? why would we partner with them?) that members should not only be free to ask, but encouraged to raise. At the moment I do not feel members have the least bit of encouragement to raise pertinent questions on this wiki, quite the opposite. --Fæ (talk) 10:51, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I note that all discussion has been moved from the Water cooler (without any attempt at consensus to do so), but not Stevie's announcement there promoting "Global Sharing Day". While there is a governance issue under active discussion, with unresolved directly relevant questions, please move the notice from the Water cooler to be located with the thread, or move this discussion back where it was. Positivity does not mean cherry picking parts of discussions. --Fæ (talk) 11:25, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a link between the two. This isn't about positivity, it's about splitting different types of discussion. Cheers Sjgknight (talk) 11:33, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

No this is cherry picking. Stevie has created a notice promoting "Global Sharing Day", the question raised is whether we should do so. Splitting the two just hides this relevant question. The stated new purpose of the Water cooler is "This is a place to let you know what is happening and to discuss our external projects and activities" - this does not include promoting events for other organizations. Stevie's notice does not fit that description as we have not committed to supporting such an event or joining Compare and Share's marketing programme by becoming a "partner". If the whole discussion thread is to stay on this page, then by the same logic, Stevie's notice should be in the Engine room not on the Water cooler.

Simon, I would like the board of trustees to be alerted to this governance issue, which now appears to be being diffused rather than managed. Wikimedia UK should not lend the Wikimedia brand name to a viral marketing campaign without doing basic background checks such as whether someone is making bags of money out of it somewhere. --Fæ (talk) 11:48, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

"Compareandshare.com is brought to you by Compare and Share Ltd., the leading provider of technology-based solutions for asset-sharing that enables consumers and companies to access and share the world’s under-used assets. Alongside compareandshare.com, we license, build and customise asset-sharing solutions for companies and organizations helping them maximise their unused assets by making it simple for them to connect surplus resources with need." Source: http://www.compareandshare.com/about-us/

My local Tesco also has surplus resources that meet my needs, at least they are open that I am going to have to pay. Philafrenzy (talk) 13:53, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Based on that description, if Wikimedia UK wants to support "resource sharing", then I suggest we do so independently and produce a Wikimedia sponsored website, forum and on-line database for the public to share resources in competition with Compare and Share Ltd. Frankly, none of it looks that technically challenging and it is something that Wikimedia UK could host on its own server. I would say an £100,000 grant would do it and at least *we* would be a charity transparently governing the entire scheme from end to end, with no future advertising and no selling of parallel commercial services piggy-backing on the created brand value. However this would mean a significant change to our charitable mission and scope as originally presented to the Charity Commission, that's up to the board of trustees if they want to fundamentally re-write this charity or stick to the mission of preserving all human knowledge, which already seems a pretty big mission. --Fæ (talk) 17:21, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I have emailed Compare and Share (they do not give a phone number on their website) asking to confirm whether they are a for-profit or not and whether an annual report is available for me to examine. Considering the blog posts on their website which mentions "pitching to a number of different corporates, investors and entrepreneurs", it would be hard to believe that investors do not expect to make a profit. --Fæ (talk) 11:23, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The co-founder Nick Tong has written back to me and confirmed that Compare and Share are a for-profit company. The lack of clear responses, and silence in the two days since, seems to make it reasonable for members to assume that this was unknown by Wikimedia UK operations before proposing that the charity support the event on the Water cooler. A rationale was given that "it costs nothing" for Wikimedia UK to join this marketing campaign, I suggest that the charity asks more questions than how much it costs to be assured that such partnerships and events remain within the values and mission of the charity, certainly before putting the Wikimedia brand name up for grabs. --Fæ (talk) 17:25, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I've never heard of Compare and Share but as this was put up for discussion on wiki and some pretty serious concerns have been raised about it I'd be inclined not to associate WMUK with it unless they be put to rest. Judging from what people have been able to find out so far there is at least a significant risk that our name will be used, in effect, as some kind of endorsement for a scheme which does not seem to have much in common with our own goals. I'm glad Fae an Philaphrenzy have raised these points. Mccapra (talk) 17:06, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I have nothing against capitalism (that would be hypocritical) it's the least worst system that has so far been devised for distributing resources, however, if I am being sold to I like people to be honest about it and this particular scheme seems a little vague about where the money is going. It's not a charity and they are not doing it for nothing are they? If the day becomes established and the financial side becomes more transparent then we could look at it again next year. Philafrenzy (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Note, it took 6 days to get something official on this, when the facts could have been confirmed within the first 20 minutes with a phone call or email. These sorts of checks should be built in before making public statements of support that are hard to back down from; not rely on me as an unpaid amateur detective playing the bad guy. --Fæ (talk) 17:47, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree that if the Water Cooler is now a form of official announcement page rather than a discussion page then things need to be looked at critically first and contentious things should maybe start on this page. I now proudly sport a grey beard and have been on the receiving end of every kind of dodgy sales pitch you can imagine. Philafrenzy (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Recruitment - Discussion removed from Water_cooler#Open_Coalition_Project_Co-ordinator

The job itself

Hi Stevie. That’s the first I’ve heard about this co-operation - has anything been posted about this before on this wiki or the mailing list? Why are you choosing to hire someone rather than to seek volunteers to do some of this work? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:25, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mike, I've replied to the email but will reply here, too. This has been discussed a few times and the collaboration has been developing for a few months. John Cummings and I led a session at MozFest in October, along with Open Knowledge Foundation, Mozilla and Creative Commons, about this very thing. To address the point about volunteers, there's lots to do and I'd encourage anyone interested in taking part as a volunteer to get involved. One of the key things the project will be doing is bringing together lots of different volunteer communities. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 17:37, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I must admit that when I first read this job description it seemed to me that these were all things that we should already be doing in line with being about the whole open knowledge project, not just Wikipedia. Does this role represent a delegation in some way of the responsibilities of the Chief Exec or is it fundamentally a different job? I see also that it is, like a number of other posts, a part time one. I am starting to be concerned that we are creating a portfolio of part time posts that provide a subsistence income for several people when we should be employing people full time. Inevitably some of these jobs, including recent In Residence appointments, take up a lot more time than the holder is being paid for, spilling into evenings and weekends for which no extra payment is made. The creation of part time posts also severely limits who can apply as most people need a full time income. I hope we are not inadvertently exploiting people by paying them for one or two days when they will actually be working three or four days. Could we alternatively offer two profiles for each job, a longer term part time job and a shorter term full time job, thus creating a wider pool of applicants? Philafrenzy (talk) 18:12, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply Stevie. Your said by email 'The board agreed to fund the project at the December board meeting'. I must be missing something - can you point me to where in the minutes this decision is recorded please? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:52, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Can't we discuss anything on the water cooler nowadays? I'm starting to feel like I'm barred from commenting there nowadays. :-( Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:14, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

The Water cooler, once for free exchange of ideas and questions, seems to have become only for approved announcements, and supporting statements of positivity, not for questions or open discussion. Not anything like how we expected transparent and open values to be implemented when we agreed the mission of the charity just a few years ago. Mike, I apologise for working against you with regard to keeping the wikimediauk-l email list independent of the charity, I now appreciate how important this might be as an independent free channel for discussion; such as being a place where one might be allowed to be critical of the CEO. --Fæ (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Meaning of this recruitment to the WMF grant / FDC proposal

My understanding of m:Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round1/WMUK/Proposal_form#Current_entity_staff_and_long-term_contractors was that Wikimedia UK made a firm public commitment to freeze staff numbers for 2014. Considering that only a few months has passed and that Stevie has confirmed that the Charity was in discussions as far back as October 2013, both the board of trustees and the CEO must have been aware this was not the operational strategy that would be followed. Note that the grant did not have final approval by the WMF board of trustees until the end of December 2013. This allowed plenty of time for a public amendment.

Why was the FDC bid presented with false commitments, and why are the charity's funding commitments being broken so early in 2014 (only 17 days since the WMF approved the grant) without returning any of the funds? --Fæ (talk) 17:40, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Rest assured the FDC are aware, Anasuya was actually present at the Board meeting where this exciting decision was made. We like to be flexible and this was a great opportunity completely in line with our charitable objectives. AGF Fae Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 17:58, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not assuming bad faith, that is a worn out rebuttal to questions. The FDC proposal is a public record, the only public statement available to me since the proposal was published is this post presenting a done deal. I do not have access to your in-camera meetings, nor do other members of the charity. According to your statement, Anasuya and the FDC was aware of this, and presumably approved of the deviation from the FDC commitment; but failed to say anything publicly. I am surprised that the FDC was not more transparent about how it accepted this concession in December and informed the WMF board in advance of their approval of the proposal, which only occurred two three weeks after the WMUK board meeting you mention. The FDC has a duty to remain transparent, this behaviour appears to fail to be transparent. A public email or note on meta from Anasuya, officially representing the FDC, explaining how the FDC empowered Anasuya to represent the FDC in December and how they kept the WMF BoT informed before finalizing the grant, would be useful for the record. --Fæ (talk) 18:03, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I have emailed the FDC to ask for a clarification of these agreements.

I remain unclear on the following points:

1. Whether Anasuya was representing the FDC on 7th December 2013 as appears implied above by Jon Davies' statement "rest assured the FDC are aware".
2. Whether the FDC, WMUK or Anasuya took steps to inform the WMF Board of Trustees between 7th December and 31st December that the commitments of the FDC bid would not be complied with.
3. How failures against measurable commitments for performance, financial plans or resource plans made in the FDC proposal are to be publicly reported, may be ignored or renegotiated in non-public meetings/discussions.

--Fæ (talk) 21:28, 17 January 2014 (UTC)