Engine room

Welcome to the Engine roomThis is a place to ask questions about how we operate as a charity and Wikimedia chapter, and to discuss organizational issues. To discuss our external projects and activities, see how you could get involved or suggest ideas that could help our charitable mission you should head over to the Water cooler.

2013
2014

A Water Cooler for members only?

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

It has been suggested several times above that it would be useful to set up a 'private' water cooler, for members of the charity only, where members can speak openly and raise issues that are perhaps best not discussed in an entirely open forum. I am myself in two minds about that, and it would be good to have a discussion here. As I see it, there are pros and cons:

Pros

There is nowhere else that members can discuss private issues of interest, nor internal or contentious issues that may not be easy to discuss openly in public. Having to ring the office is not always a good solution for a member who would like to start a quiet discussion.
Members with concerns would be able to raise issues without contributing to what otherwise - to uninvolved readers - can easily come over as 'washing dirty linen in public' or 'navel-gazing'. Doing everything on a public forum can easily give the incorrect impression that the charity is more concerned about internal in-fighting than actually getting on with its mission.

Cons

Transparency is part of the charity's mission, and we should not keep things confidential unless there are very good reasons to do so.
The very existence of a closed discussion forum could and probably would generate suspicion, and provide fuel for conspiracy theories.
Users with critical views to express may well not want them kept0 confidential, and may prefer to have an open discussion in a forum (here or elsewhere) where they might hope to garner non-member support. That could largely undermine the purpose of having a confidential forum.

I am sure there are more issues that I have not thought of. Comments and discussion would be welcome. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 18:21, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

We have long experience of closed wikis, they tend to be used rarely and only by small numbers of the groups they are intended for. If you consider the closed WMUK Board wiki, the closed OTRS wiki and the closed Chapters wiki as examples, they tend to be used as places to dump reference material, none is a good place to discuss any issue and are likely to disenfranchise those that are less wiki-passionate, in fact related open email lists tend to be far more popular. I'm not against an experiment, even if openness is at the heart of the WMUK values, however my expectation would be that few of the 220 members would join (after all only an average of 20 members ever write here) and even fewer would use it for anything. If we increase membership (the target for 2014 being 400), I would expect an even lower proportion to engage in closed wikis or closed email lists.

If the incentive here is to close down discussion of topics such as entryism for this charity, it should be noted that the board of trustees openly published minutes of their vote and discussion on this issue of membership verification. The general way membership functions or fails to function correctly for a public charity, should be a matter of public record as it is of distinct public interest. I struggle to think of any topic that would be of genuine interest to members that should not be discussed publicly that would not create equivalent problems if encouraged to be discussed on a closed forum, for example suspected instances of financial fraud or defamatory allegations that should not be made in any written forum. Especially in the light of the fact that members are effectively anonymous, and we would have no way of stopping any member copying discussions back into an open forum, nor could we take any legal action in such circumstances unless it were a criminal matter or libel. --Fæ (talk) 19:16, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

No 'incentive' here from my perspective. I opened the thread as it is an idea that Philafrenzy has suggested several times, and it seems at the very least to merit discussion. But there are quite clearly serious 'cons'. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:11, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I will give a fuller reply later but may I point out that it is hardly my original idea Michael. The chapter, and Jon in particular, have been worried for a long time about how the water cooler appears to the rest of the world including potential members and trustees, and I think several people including trustees and Jon have asked whether things raised here could have been raised in private. I am just stating the obvious which is that if this is too public, the only logical response is to make it more private. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:40, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this, Michael. At the moment I would tend towards "no", for two reasons;

It is useful and possibly important to have non-members looking at, and participating in, the kinds of issues that members discuss. For instance - a Wikimedian who's never quite got around to joining might see something that interested them, and add some useful comments, and then get more involved. Also, there are some people who have valuable input but have reasons for not joining: for instance because of professional reasons, or because they don't want to compromise their anonymity.
Any shared space is vulnerable to abuse: if the frequency of negative interaction increases too much, people will start to avoid it and find other places to have conversations. This problem is worse in closed spaces which have fewer users. There was an example of this recently on a Wikimedia Foundation email list called internal-l, which used to include many Foundation staff and board members, chapter board members, and the like. Sadly, it became dominated by a couple of people sending shouty emails, a bunch of people unsubscribed, and it's now scarcely used. In general, more interaction, more positive interaction, and more community regulation of the shared space is more likely to make it successful, and these things are on the whole easier in the open.

But it would certainly be worth hearing more thoughts on this. The Land (talk) 08:29, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Some good points there, and in conjunction with Fae's point about the probable lack of engagement with such a forum I am also tending towards "no". More comments would be welcome, though. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:12, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Clearly there are major disadvantages in protecting this page in some way or making it member only and I don't think that two water coolers would work or be necessary. There remains, however, a reason for having a page, perhaps little used, where members only may raise matters that are not suitable for a public forum and which need to be raised in writing with the membership as a whole in a confidential way. I acknowledge the point that such confidentiality is easily broken but that is not an argument for not having such a page.

The page could act as a sort of safety valve that would allow members to "whistle blow" to other members and act as an early warning mechanism for the board that there may be something that demands their immediate attention. It would also give members a choice, which they do not have at present, of how they raise matters with the chapter and the membership and remove the excuse that there was no alternative but to post here. I acknowledge the possible anti-democratic implications of, for instance, having important debates such as about CIPR there rather than here but it is desirable, I think, that members should be able to communicate with each other in writing and in private without having to go through an intermediary on the board or the staff, as we are currently encouraged to do. It is irrelevant that such a page may be little used. It ought to exist for its own sake, much like the emergency brake on a train. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:16, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Change is required

The Water cooler had many uses, not the least of which showing me that tilde is not spelt like a 70's instant curry! Moving to a private space is not the answer but we need to think hard about how it is or is not functioning.

It is not attracting more than 20 people. That cannot be good. It is uspetting people. That is certainly not good. Despite all the news of good initiatives and opportunities its content tends to be dominated by 'navel gazing'. Even I struggle to understand the nuances of some of the discussions. This IS our public forum after all and perhaps we should make more of an effort to be accessible? I would argue that it is far too introspective. From my observations much of the vibrant dialogue on the community happens on facebook (crosses himself lest the devil takes his open source soul). The watercooler has little levity or humour or lightness of touch. There is often a distinct lack of AGF. One of my staff fears looking at it and told me so this morning. Should I ban staff from using it? That would be so sad. How can we make it more interesting and accessible? We share a lot of brickbats and not enough barnstars on the Watercooler. As one ex-trustee once told me ' we are an organsiation that hasn't learnt to say thank you" Could the Watercooler be part of a change in this culture?

I would like to see a watercooler where my member of staff logged on every morning with enthusiasm hoping to learn more about what people were thinking and feeling ready to contribute knowing people would be polite and even kind to them. I don't think this is impossible.

Tilde time Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 20:17, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I somewhat agree with Jon here, particularly when it comes to not moving to a private space, and also when it comes to people fearing to look at this page. :-( This should be a place where everyone can discuss WMUK in a pleasant manner, without aiming to upset anyone. At the same time, though, everyone should be able to honestly and openly express and explain their viewpoints here. I think that introspection is a really important aspect of this - and I'm really disappointed to hear that there is dialogue taking place on facebook, since that excludes a lot of people (including myself since I only participate in personal conversations there!) Levity and humour doesn't necessarily need to be here, although I would hope that this would happen naturally where things are going well. I'm not sure what 'brickbats' means (since enwp also doesn't know this term), and barnstars belong on user pages rather than this page, but it would be good to see more barnstar-worthy comments left here. I'm rather saddened by Jon's last line, though, as it really should be *our* members of staff rather than Jon's. :-( Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:31, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think Jon feels protective of the staff Mike, and that their efforts are under-appreciated and meet only with criticism. I understand why he might feel that way. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:42, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

In some ways I agree with Jon here, but I also feel he is also using polarising language: Should the CEO be either commanding staff to use the Watercooler, or banning them from using it. Could not they be given discretion as to how to handle whatever situations arise as they arise? And isn't it the tensions which surface on the Watercooler which upset people, rather than the water cooler itself. Yes, it is a public forum, but not a platform for WMUK to advertise itself. For myself I think one area where clarity would be useful is that I feel we need a clear distinction between Wikipedia/Wikimedia communities, and WMUK which is a firm. In fact they are like chalk and cheese, and whenever they are turned into an amalgam, it will generate problems. When I edit Wikipedia, I am not a "volunteer" so much as an "amateur" (I really dislike the way "professionalism" has come to imply a superior quality of performance, when this is so often far from the case.) When I edit are participate in what Yochai Benkler calls Commons-based peer production. However when I volunteer for Wikimedia UK, I am functioning as an unpaid member of a firm, donating my labour because I wish to contribute to the shared goals of the organisation. Now I realise this all getting somewhat theoretical, but it is my view that this is the only way to develop a way of coping with what I regard as inevitable tensions. Let's see! Leutha (talk) 22:25, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Splitting the Watercooler

(after edit conflict with Leutha and Philafrenzy) Wiktionary is more illuminating about what a brickbat is, possibly it could be more so but it is a start. The second sense is the one being used here.

As to the substance of the comment, I can understand why someone may not like reading this page. Far too often I'm seeing comments that read as if they are based on the assumption that the staff and/or trustees are bad, wrong and out to deliberately destroy the charity. Not a single one of the WMUK people I've met (at least two trustees and most of the office staff I think) has been anything of the sort and such attitudes should have no place on any Wikimedia-related project. If staff are frightened to come here how can we hope to attract volunteers?

Linking to Wiktionary has given me an idea for a possible way forward that might be a step in the right direction to fix this problem. At the English Wiktionary there are multiple central discussion spaces, all equally public, but each with their own purpose:

An Information desk, similar to the Help desk at the English Wikipedia. For minor problems, help and queries
The Tea Room, and Etymology scriptorium which deal with queries about specific words and etymology (not dissimilar to the en.wp Reference desks).
The Beer parlour is where policy discussions happen; and
The Grease pit is where technical requests, discussions and development happens.

I get the feeling that here the Water cooler is trying to be all of them, and isn't doing a good job of it. We don't need 5 spaces, we're not that big. So can I suggest the following reorganisation (but maybe with better names):

Water Cooler (or maybe Lobby or Pub it wants an image change): A place that focuses on being an open and welcoming space for informal light-hearted discussion among everybody. The welcoming public face that we show the world. The atmosphere should be as friendly and welcoming as the office is.
Break room: For discussions about internal matters that are not relevant to the world at large. While anyone is welcome to come and join in, it isn't thrust in their faces if they aren't interested. This should still have a welcoming atmosphere, but needn't necessarily be as jovial as the main area.
Technical lounge (if needed): For technical requests and queries about the wiki. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 22:30, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Since the discussions here are discursive, and making any of them private seems to be off the menu, how will we ensure appropriate use of the pages? Won't it just lead to discussions spread over three pages? Philafrenzy (talk) 22:49, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not even sure we need that many options: just one for "Governance and Membership" and one for "Events and Endeavours": that is, one where we discuss "serious, dull" issues, and one where we discuss "charitable, fun" issues - or similar. Just a thought! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 23:34, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Richard, as frequently happens an idea of mine is improved by simplification! Thanks!

Philarenzy, all it needs is someone to split threads when tangents arise. More thread discipline wouldn't go amiss regardless of what we do. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 23:39, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Cat herding? Philafrenzy (talk) 23:44, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I like the idea of "Governance and Membership" and "Events and Endeavours" spaces. The first is essentially internal-facing, the second external. What we need are two short, snappy names for them. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

A lovely discussion full of good ideas and faith - thanks. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 11:17, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

So, could we have some suggestions for short, snappy names for the proposed "Governance and Membership" and "Events and Endeavours" spaces? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:51, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

This is a proposal for the renaming of the Water Cooler and the creation of a new public facing page if I understand it correctly. I am not sure about names but where will each page be positioned in the navigation? Philafrenzy (talk) 15:29, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

If by "the navigation" you mean the sidebar on the left, then I'd suggest the "Events and endeavours" page takes the Water cooler's spot at the top of the "wiki" section with the "Governance and Membership page" appearing on the line below. Alternatively the public facing page could move to the "participate" section (either at the top, or after Events, Join us or Volunteer) and the inward-facing page would take a spot in the "Organisation" section (probably after either People or Board meetings). I think there would also be benefit in adding linking both pages from the "Get involved" section on the main page.

As for names, "Smoky back room" comes to mind for the membership page but that's completely inappropriate! "The pub" might work for the public page, but I'm in two minds about that. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 17:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

This discussion seems to have morphed from making the Water cooler members only to changing its name and possibly changing its position too. I acknowledge the sometimes fractious nature of the debate but I am not sure that there is consensus to do either right now. Under "Participate" we have events, join us and volunteer which seem eminently useful pages and where I would go first if I was new. I actually wouldn't head to Water cooler first because it is not a term in everyday use in the UK. And if visitors are going there and being put-off participating (for which we have not seen the evidence) it may only because they are seeing us as we really are. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:20, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I've added a couple of section headers to try and clarify that this discussion is about splitting the present Water cooler page into two separate spaces, one friendly and welcoming to everyone that focuses on public-facing things; the other for internal-facing discussions of governance and membership that is open to all but primarily of interest to members. Obviously that should be friendly too, but there will sometimes be reason to be harder and more interrogative which can be offputting. The names issue is purely because we cannot have two pages both called "Water cooler" and so we need a new name for at least one of the pages. The only person to bring up changing position is you - based on your comment I floated an idea, which may be the best thing since sliced bread, the worst idea in the history of the world or anywhere in between. With exactly zero feedback on it I can't say. Your point today that the name and change of position may not be independent isn't something I'd previously thought of. A sidebar link saying something like "discuss at [the Water cooler]" or "Talk with us (at [the Water cooler])" may or may not help (I've given it only a few seconds thought). The split isn't dependent on the change of name of course - temporary names can be used until we come up with something better.

As for what there is consensus for, I'd say that there is consensus that the status quo needs changing, and of the possibilities for change splitting has the most support and seemingly meets with the approval of Jon, who was the person who noted the issue with the member of staff having problems with this place (it seems that this is not a safe space (for a reason that is likely confidential)). I don't know whether Jon has discussed the splitting proposal with that member of staff (I'm not sure whether it is appropriate for us to know that or not?), but if they have and both Jon and that staff member think it would help (or would at least be worth trying) then in my opinion it should be done. If something within the control of the Chief Exec is preventing the charity from getting the full value from a member of staff then I want him to do what he can to improve the situation as doing otherwise is wasting the charity's money. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 16:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but I am unclear how renaming this page (and/or moving it) or creating a new public facing page (we already have several good ones) will make anyone feel any more comfortable. Won't it just be the same people posting the same things? Unless you vary posting rights and/or access in some way, which has been rejected, then you essentially have the same participants as you do now. I don't want to be defeatist about it but I think the problem, to the extent there is one, relates to the conduct of individuals and no amount of messing around with the pages will change that. We also need to be very careful not to further reduce member discussion of the activities of the chapter even if occasionally it might result in bruised egos. Can we have more details please of how the new arrangements will make the staff feel safer reading or commenting here, or is the idea that the staff will not be expected to post on or read the new Water cooler? Philafrenzy (talk) 19:23, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

The basic premise underlying the proposal is that there are two sorts of topics discussed here, for ease of reference only I'll call them A and B. Type A topics are the ones about events, activities, workshops, etc, These are the ones that most interest non-members and new members, and the discussion around them is generally positive and friendly. Type B topics are the ones which discuss membership, governance and similar things - including this thread. They are typically less interesting to non-members, but it is around these sorts of topics that the ill feeling happens (and I agree it's only a small number of individuals responsible in almost all cases). This navel gazing and intemperateness is not welcoming to newcomers and outsiders.

Based on this premise, my theory (and it is just that) is that if we split the Water Cooler into Space A and Space B then things will improve. By becoming more welcoming to everyone, Space A will draw more people in (everybody wants this) and it will be a non-toxic environment to which staff, members and everyone feel welcome in. This should lead to more input into everything and hopefully more members. Space B will not be fixed by this proposal alone, but it should be less contaminating. With more people becoming members then that should lead to more discussion - once people are comfortable that is. I am unusual in being prepared to jump right in to a policy discussion and not be afraid to offer suggestions, even when the environment is hostile. Sensible newcomers would run for the hills.

My intention is most definitely not to reduce member commenting, indeed exactly the opposite. I hope that is what will happen anyway - I have no evidence. Nobody has presented any evidence to the contrary though, nor any better alternatives, and something needs to be done. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 22:44, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

The issue was discussed at the Board in December and we are looking for a consensual solution. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 10:47, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Could you clarify what you mean by that please? Is the board looking for a solution that has the consensus of the board? of the community? If the latter it is presumably the case that the idea of splitting proposed here has been judged not to have consensus (yet?)? If so are alternatives being looked at by the board? By a staff member? or are the community being asked to look for other options? Have I got the wrong end of the stick entirely? Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 10:58, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

There clearly is not consensus here about splitting, which would have various disadvantages and the main advantage, apparently, only that everyone will be nicer afterwards, despite all the same people being involved. (I have made a proposal for a separate, probably little used, whistle-blowing page with different rules.) I am not convinced that there is even a "problem" requiring a "solution", or at least one that can be achieved by creating new pages. Would this discussion even be happening if all the comments were flattering about WMUK and the board? I don't think so. This page is the only place where members can have their say, in public, in real time, between AGMs. One could argue that the fact that a number of people, principally those on the official side, wish to dispose of or neuter this page is evidence that it is valuable. I think the board and Jon should just accept the fact that although this page is sometimes fractious, it is an essential component of the democratic processes of the chapter which are already weak and we tamper with it at the risk of leaving the only way to raise matters as being in an EGM with all the disruption that involves. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:46, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

If this page were just a space for praise of wmuk/board not constructive discussion I think we'd rightly be worried about that. That we have members reluctant to engage here at the moment should be a major concern both with respect to trying to create a positive working environment (and a space that doesn't put off potential new members) and in terms of democratic deficit. There is no proposal to remove a space for critical discussion, the issue is around how to maximise effective discussion; the proposal to create more discussion pages is targeted at aiding that. Sjgknight (talk) 11:53, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Please define "effective discussion". This page seems quite effective to me in raising issues that get no airing elsewhere. I could give a list but we all know what they are. It's in the nature of democratic debate to be at times unpleasant and bruising. I see no way round that. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:19, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I, and others, have described what is meant above. It is not an effective discussion when many do not feel welcome to take part, this leads to a twofold democratic deficit firstly around recruitment and secondly around the ability of members to take part in discussion. It stifles voices - a concern we both share - and is largely unnecessary, despite what you seem to be suggesting. I disagree with many of my colleagues on a good many things, but our discussion is not unpleasant or bruising; e.g. you don't have to punch someone in the face to restrain them. Sjgknight (talk) 13:41, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Indeed you don't, but the ability to say something that other people are going to find uncomfortable to hear is one end of the spectrum of democratic debate and not one that any vigorous democracy can exist without, but I sense that we are repeating ourselves now. Is there any actual evidence that people are deterred from membership or participation and how would splitting fix this? It seems to me that this is a problem of the conduct of individuals, if indeed it is a real problem at all, and therefore you need to change the conduct of those individuals. Since there are no sanctions that can be imposed and no agreement as to what is acceptable conduct or otherwise, that may be impossible. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:03, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Is there any evidence - yes. Will splitting wc help - unsure, but worth a try. Yes I agree sanctions & acceptable conduct code (I think there actually is one) are other options but there again we'd need some consensus and scope for difficulties is high. I think we largely agree on other matters and as you say are just repeating now, hope this helped clarify in any case (even if you are still somewhat unconvinced by the solution) Sjgknight (talk) 14:07, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

(unindent) If there has to be a split (I'm not entirely convinced that there does), then I'd recommend going along the same lines as Wikipedia:Village pump - have multiple water coolers focused on different topics, with this page acting as a landing/disambig page. Perhaps Water cooler (activities) and Water cooler (governance)? Maybe also with a Water cooler (miscellaneous). Any more than three pages would probably be too much of a split at this point, though. Some sort of code-of-conduct along the lines of Participation policy could work (as it stands, that page talks about 'activities', but this page isn't really an 'activity' hence the need for adaption here), but given the past types of discussion here I suspect it would result in "toeing the line" behaviour rather than actually solving any problems. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:39, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for the thought people have put into this. We must never lose our ability to debate the issues and be critical when necessary. The question is where and I am convinced the WaterCooler, one of our windows to new people is not the best place and has ceased to be a place for a refreshing drink and chat as intended. Rightly contributors ask for evidence and I will do my best.

I think there are three pieces of evidence that we need to think again about how Watercooler works. The first is that out of 240 members and 102 active volunteers less than 20 people post on the Watercooler. I checked through the last 100 edits (not very scientific I know) and 65 of the edits came from four of the fifteen users. Five of the users were staff.

Secondly although I have described how some staff are genuinely upset by posting there owing to the nature of what they see as personal attacks but mostly because they feel it presents an overly inward and negative looking view of WMUK this would not be reason enough to make changes but should be taken into account

Thirdly I would point to the member's survey. To be anonymised and published on-wiki in the New Year when the volunteer doing it has safely moved house. There were no positive comments about the Water Coller but look at the answers that relate to the watercooler to the question:

Please can you describe any negative experiences as a member? How can this be improved?

I have never written anything on the water cooler, but reading the occasional rather destructive conversations would not encourage me to do so. If that was my only, or initial experience of WMUK I would not want to be part of it. Sadly, it sometimes gives a very negative and off-putting view of WMUK.

Negative environment online. No way to communicate with staff or other volunteers due to hostile nature of discussions.

I do not enjoy that some members of the community are rude. I also do not like that no action is taken to restrain this rudeness. I feel it disencourages others from getting involed.

Other volunteers airing the chapter's dirty laundry in public fora

Only on Wikipedia and Water Cooler, the latter should be banned!

The conduct of a couple of users on the wiki is offputting, perhaps someone independent acting in a moderatorial role would help (needs more thought though).

Hostile atmosphere in discussions

Negative interaction on cooler/mailing list

There's way too much negativity. Compliments and praise - whether to other volunteers, staff or trustees - is whispered very quietly while criticism is done at a roar

Some of the volunteers are negative, carping, whiny types. I'm not sure what's to be done about this, but it is a very big turn-off, and participating in discussions with those people does not appeal at all.

Some very negative members put me off getting involved.

I would feel much happier if there wasn't so much negativity about everything. There are one or two members whose negative behaviour and at times blank hostility to everything, especially staff, which is extremely disruptive.

Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 11:11, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

A few immediate thoughts Jon:

Yes, the last 100 edits is not very scientific as it only covers five days, but in those days fifteen different users contributed. That seems quite good actually given the short time span and small membership. It would be interesting to know what proportion of members contributed over 30 and 365 days.
I don't think anyone has any sound basis for saying that this page is for one purpose or another, it is free-form and created by those who choose to contribute. Clearly contributors are taking the trouble to write here in their free time, without pay and on subjects they feel are important. If that was not the case there would be nothing on the page, but it seems to fill up fairly quickly.
You can't control what people choose to post about and inevitably a lot of that is going to be inward looking.
The comments about the negativity are absolutely typical of what is found in every survey of the public about any kind of political debate. "It's too negative" "Why can't they all get along" etc. If the complaint is about specific individuals then you need to have the courage to tackle those individuals. Don't stifle everyone else's right to speak because of the behaviour of one or two people.
As ever with democratic debate, the answer is not less engagement but more. If you don't like your local Councillor get involved, vote them out or stand yourself. In this case, those who don't or rarely participate should get involved and change this page to what they want it to be. Anyone can contribute here and I hope they will. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:27, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I would like to highlight my discomfort as a trustee the last time that a survey was used to assess member feedback on staff performance. The results were significantly biased due to the number of staff members taking part and expressing opinions on topics related to their own performance in comparison to the numbers of members that took part in the survey. For this reason the board of trustees at the time pretty much discounted the survey on strategy when it came to issues of judging staff performance, even though publicly this was counted as an indicator of successful performance. If Jon's list of quotes above are to be taken as evidence, those from employees and board members should be highlighted so that we can judge how much this influences the feedback.

It should also be noted that the question asked is only canvassing for negative opinions, that the result is a list of negative opinions is no surprise. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:38, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

The follow up question was 'Can you talk about positive experiences'. No one mentioned the Watercooler. Also, I doubt all these comments came from staff but I'm troubled that if staff feedback the above that wouldn't be taken seriously as well. Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk)

(ec) Wikimedia UK employees do an excellent job, especially Katherine. I would appreciate a link to where the answers to positive experiences are published.

I would be troubled if staff feedback were not taken seriously, indeed I would be troubled if my comments here were portrayed in a way that made it seem that I said anything of this kind. A concern for bias, is not the same thing as throwing away feedback. Until now I have not felt the need to caveat my comments with a prefix and suffix saying positive things about WMUK employees, perhaps that was a mistake. If we do have to start treating comments on the watercooler as a PR opportunity, or worry that any comment may be taken out of context and need to consider how to write it defensively on the assumption that it will be read in bad faith, then I rather wonder what the point of having a public wiki is, as it will start to seem falsely described as an open forum.

I continue to be concerned that we do not know how many of the above comments were from board members or employees and which were from members who are neither board members nor employees.

I look forward to more feedback from Wikimedia UK employees on this water cooler, and I encourage members to say positive things about employees, especially during fundraising/holiday season. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:27, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I refer you to my previous posts Sjgknight (talk) 15:34, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, could you provide a link to where the comments are split so we can tell which are from non-board members and non-employees? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:38, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand the question. I assume good faith, but can I suggest 'show preview' is a better means to ensure the tone, content, form, etc. of your posts are appropriate over saving and re-editing. Sjgknight (talk) 15:47, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Simon, thank you for assuming good faith and your tip about the preview button. Congratulations on being one of the co-opted trustees to fill the seats left by Mike and myself after our early resignations. I note we both have a connection with the OU.

Sorry my question is not comprehensible. I have carefully reviewed your previous comments in this thread, which you referred me to as an answer to my question, but nothing you have previously written was an answer, so there seems to be a disconnect here. Perhaps the best thing is to try rephrasing it, and hope that someone who knows more about the unpublished survey can provide an answer.

Above, it can be seen that Jon Davies has introduced selected comments from the recent survey of members, the ones that display in grey boxes in my browser, this is the first time these have been published. The survey results have yet to be provided to members. A survey was completed at the beginning of 2013 (I have not checked dates, so am going from memory) which was then used as evidence by Jon in his report to the board of trustees of the member satisfaction with the performance of the charity. Unfortunately due to the low number of members taking part in the survey, when the ratio of opinions from employees was compared to the total of opinions from members who were not employees, it became obvious that it was not sensible for the board to draw conclusions from the results; so we did not.

Until we know which of the 12 comments published by Jon above were from employees or board members, it is not possible judge how critical or representative these comments are in terms of the views of general members, rather than members who are employees or trustees.

Opinions from trustees and employees are highly valued and I am sure everyone wants to evaluate them as part of the survey, this is not any sort of suggestion that we would not. From a statistician's point of view, drawing conclusions from survey data like this is entirely dependent on understanding the sample space; in this case without understanding which feedback is from those who direct or are contracted by the charity and which are from those who are not, we can only speculate rather than draw meaningful conclusions.

Thanks to Jon for taking the bold step of publishing an extract from the survey so early. --Fæ (talk) 06:47, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The question isn't "who said these things", it's "is there a justifiable case for change". My previous comments reply to that issue. Your concern with the authorship of these specific statements is moot, if it needs talking about it can be done in a separate discussion. Sjgknight (talk) 09:37, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I am not enthusiastic about creating another thread on this, if you think any one of your previous comments specifically addressed my question I would appreciate a link to it.

If the sample space must remain a complete secret, then no conclusion can be reliable. Thanks for sharing your views. --Fæ (talk) 08:44, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Email notifications - configuration request

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

Please could someone with the relevant permissions change the configuration of the description of this wiki for email notification purposes.

Wiki	From	Subject line
en.wp	Wikipedia	<user> left you a message on Wikipedia
WMUK (current)	MediaWiki Mail	You have a new talkpage message
WMUK (better)	Wikimedia UK	<user> left you a message on the Wikimedia UK wiki

Thanks, Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 09:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone know where this table is? Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 13:05, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

ps: This message also triggered the new external link captcha and I'm puzzled about why? Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 09:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I get exactly the same problem even when there is no external link in my contribution. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

I reckon it's the table that's triggering the captcha as I my edit adding one to the #FDC 2013-14 recommended funding for Wikimedia UK section required me to enter a captcha despite there being no new external links. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 12:43, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

But just adding a table in my userspace here didn't trigger it, so it's not as simple as that. Sorry. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 13:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the CAPTCHA applies to existing external links, as well as new ones. Chris, the links to your talk pages on other projects in your signature is probably what's triggering it. I suspect most people don't notice because a lot of the more active users on this wiki have admin rights; personally, I'd gladly give you both admin rights (I'm sure you can both be trusted not to break anything) but I'm not important enough to make that decision. Harry Mitchell (talk) 12:28, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Have given Thryduulf admin rights now. Thanks for the edit summary Harry - difficult to spot this otherwise! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 12:56, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Cheers Richard. Harry it's more complicated than that as I wasn't getting a captcha for every edit I signed, but it's possibly some combination including that as I didn't sign the test edits in my userspace. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 13:21, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I *think* that this is determined by MediaWiki:Notification-edit-talk-page-email-subject2 using Echo (based on the code at [1]); I've just changed that so it uses Thryduulf's recommended message (based on the syntax at MediaWiki:Notification-edit-talk-page-email-subject2). Would anyone like to test this? If it doesn't work, then we need to find the right MediaWiki: namespace page to edit (or file a report on bugzilla). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:51, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Thryduulf for sending me a test email. The email subject from that is defined by MediaWiki:Defemailsubject; it currently has a subject along the lines of "Wikimedia UK email from user "Thryduulf"". Does that need changing? It's a different variable than the one used for notification of a user talk page message, though.... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:52, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

The talk page message notification is better but not quite right yet. It still comes from "MediaWiki Mail" and the subject is "$1 left you a message on the Wikimedia UK Wiki", so it's seemingly treating the variable as a literal for some reason. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 11:25, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Ah. I've changed it to read "A new message has been left for you on the Wikimedia UK wiki" for now, until the variable can be figured out. I'll send an email to the WMUK tech list to see if anyone there can figure this out better than I can. Also see [2]. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:58, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

CIPR publications

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

Just for the record, CIPR have released new social media guidance which specifically excludes Wikipedia for which members are referred to the 2012 booklet listed last. Links:

Philafrenzy (talk) 22:13, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

The guidance also links to other guides (e.g. their social media monitoring guide), so this is probably a case of conciseness rather than specific exclusion. Plus, Wikipedia isn't a social media website (although some people think it is), so shouldn't really be included in such a guide anyway. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:18, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting that they were wrong to exclude Wikipedia Mike, just noting the fact that they had and were directing people to the other brochure. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Ah, apologies for misunderstanding. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:58, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Considering that Wikimedia UK's name is on the guide, it is a great pity that the board of trustees refused to either issue the draft document, or withdraw it. Staying in limbo is an abdication of responsibility. --Fæ (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Could you elaborate a little more by what you mean by "it is a great pity that the board of trustees refused to either issue the draft document, or withdraw it." ? Seddon (talk) 00:31, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

/2013#.22CIPR_and_Wikimedia_UK_volunteers_have_agreed_a_set_of_guidelines_for_PR_practitioners.22

/2013#Responding_to_comments_about_CIPR_vs._issuing_or_withdrawing_the_draft_WMUK.2FCIPR_paid_editing_guidelines

--Fæ (talk) 11:49, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Ahhh thanks for the links. Seddon (talk) 20:37, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Question

I find this very odd behaviour for trustees. What is going on? We have a WMUK Secretary who is also CEO of CIPR and therefore a paid advocate of the PR industry, apparently suppressing public comments from another trustee about WMUK's actions with regard to the partnership with CIPR, this is not what I would expect if it is important that Alastair is seen to be avoiding acting in affairs where he has a direct conflict of interest. --Fæ (talk) 00:31, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I think it's safe to assume it was an accident, don't you? Roll back's a twitchy feature, especially on mobile devices for example. I have restored Seddon's comment. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 08:59, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I asked what was going on, a question that can be answered without being forced to make assumptions. When it comes to governance issues, assumptions are not good foundations. --Fæ (talk) 09:40, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Then this is the second time in less than a week that I am going to have to remind you that assuming good faith should be second natured to seasoned Wikimedians. Your question came across as distinctly pointed. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 10:02, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Richard, Alastair hardly ever posts here and this was one of his rare edits that removed links to pages critical of WMUK relationship with CIPR, a subject he has said he would stay away from. Fae's question is entirely legitimate. If he hadn't asked it I would have and I am sure a number of other people noticed the change. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:34, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

The rollbacked edit didn't remove any links, it removed the latest edit on the page which said "Ahhh thanks for the links". Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 13:04, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I stand corrected, but I am still wondering why as it is the first edit Alastair has made since 18 October. (Is that right? Can one be Secretary but inactive on this Wiki?) Philafrenzy (talk) 13:18, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Alastair is no longer the Secretary, in the way that Mike Peel was our Secretary, as this role has been fully delegated to the CEO and no longer exists separately on the board. Alastair has a title of "Secretary" on the board of trustees but I have seen no definition of what this means now that the legal definition is not applicable, it may well be an honorary title without any powers beyond a normal trustee. This is something that ought to be explained more clearly to the members if we are to be expected to understand these changes to the board structure, after we voted for the board members. By the way, both Mike and I would have firmly objected to this full delegation of the authority and responsibility of Company Secretary to the CEO, this was an initiative that became operational quite quickly after we both resigned. --Fæ (talk) 14:07, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I was aware of the fact that UK companies may now drop the role of Company Secretary. I think that has been widely done and makes sense since in all but the largest companies it is a meaningless job occupied usually by spouses or aged relatives of the proprietors, and I don't think there has ever been any requirement under company law to have a named Chairman (I might be wrong about that), but since WMUK is a membership organisation and says it has both a Chairman and Secretary then I would expect those jobs to have clearly defined duties within the organisation, even if neither role has any significance as far as Companies House is concerned. Philafrenzy (talk) 19:34, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the role of Company Secretary in WMUK is/was rather different from that you set out here. Certainly I never felt like a spouse or an aged relative of anyone (although I did once end up being profiled as the 'grandfather of WMUK'!), and we've never had 'proprietors'. The draft description at Board/Role_profiles#Secretary does need an update though (see below), as do the descriptions of the other roles of the board office bearers. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:27, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I know Mike, I was contrasting the role of Coy Sec in small owner-managed companies, which was why it was abolished as a huge waste of everyone's time, with the position here. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:39, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the clarification. This may make sense for small owner-managed companies, but I really don't think that it does for charities. :-( Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:12, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I am sure that Alastair can answer my simple question himself without relying on employees to field it for him. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:31, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi I'm a bit perplexed by this discussion. I look at the water cooler most days and follow the discussions on various topics. I tend not to contribute but just follow the various points made. I have noted Fae's querying of the CIPR guidelines on Wikipedia but since I clearly have a conflict on interest in that matter I have not made any comment about it. I am surprised to see discussion around the fact that i have apparently edited someone else's contribution on this topic. I certainly have not consciously done so. I click on 'prev' and 'curr' to see what contributions people have made on different topics but that's it. I'm not sure how I have ended up rolling back some else's edit but if I have somehow done that I do apologise. I have been looking at the WC on my phone since losing my ipad 10 days ago and it is perhaps possible that this was a 'fat finger' error.Mccapra (talk) 23:11, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

OK, it's regrettable that it happened on that particular topic though isn't it and your first edit for a really long time, but stranger things have been known to happen. By the way, I can't help but suspect that the acronym WC is not accidental! Philafrenzy (talk) 23:39, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

This does definitely seem to be far too much talk about nothing/an accidental click. However, it has surfaced an important topic - what exactly is the role of Secretary nowadays? Board/Role_profiles#Secretary is now rather out of date, and could do with an update. However, as Fæ noted, the change in role here is definitely something that both him and me would have objected to. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:20, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I've looked back at the history and clearly I did edit this. Sorry about that Seddon! No idea how I managed to do that.Mccapra (talk) 23:35, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I would be cautious about editing from any tablet or phone, wikis do not do this well. I have a rather complex work around in that my rollback links are shrunk to a hard to hit single character when on a mobile device, as the WMF does not seem to be prioritizing a better mobile interface, this is unlikely to improve for a while. --Fæ (talk) 23:58, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I will indeed be much more cautious in future on my phone. I wasn't even intending to edit, just to read. Sorry to get everyone worried.Mccapra (talk) 11:21, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I think I've just seen how I did this. On some lines in the 'view history' tab the sentence is so long that it kicks 'undo' round off the end of the line and it sits underneath 'curr'. I think I hit 'undo' when I meant to hit 'curr'.

Have you tried the latest version of the mobile interface? The WMF have been investing quite a bit of work into it, and I've found it quite impressive so far (particularly with watchlists etc.), although it's a bit of a shame that it doesn't automatically work on tablets. Sadly, the Wikipedia app has really been left behind in terms of features over the last year or so. Also sadly, there still isn't a good way of commenting on discussion pages yet, although article page editing seems to be getting better nowadays. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

On the question of the role of the Secretary on the Board - it was established quite some time before I became a trustee that Board members were to move away from being operational and take on a more strategic role. This wasn't my decision but the decision of the Board previous to my election, and confirmed in the findings of the Hudson Review, which the previous Board accepted. I agreed with this direction, as I made clear in my election manifesto and at the AGM hustings. Shortly after I was elected, the Board noted that there is no longer a legal requirement to have Company Secretary, and the fairly limited formal duties which the CS use to undertake are in many charities in any case carried out by the CEO. This seemed a sensible approach to us and we agreed to it. The current roles of Chair, Treasurer and Secretary are not set out in formal job descriptions in WMUK. Some charities do define these roles and indeed require people to stand for election for specific roles. We might want to consider that but I don't have strong views about it myself. In general terms, the Secretary in most similar organisations has the lead responsibility on the Board for liaising with the secretariat to ensure that agendas and papers are properly prepared and circulated for meetings, proper minutes are kept, actions followed up, and business does not get lost between meetings. Secretaries are usually also the point of reference for questions about the conduct of meetings or matters relating to the constitution. That's what I do. Mccapra (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I would have expected the role to extend to oversight of similar bureaucratic needs for committees with delegated powers. You may want to consider if these expectations for minutes, actions etc. extend to those groups or if they are free to operate differently. Certainly action tracking has remained pretty dismal with things easily lost over time and then resurrected when related risks turn into issues.

In terms of the need to define roles, with a large staff of 9, there is a need to have formal definitions, in particular to ensure that performance of the charity is reliably measured, that treasurer functions continue to be a high and reliable standard, and that the performance review of the CEO is done reliably and professionally even if it may adapt to the thoughts of each new Chairperson (who may change every year, if indeed this remains the Chair's responsibility). --Fæ (talk) 23:58, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I personally never expected the role to extend to the committees, whether they had delegated powers or not. Committees should really appoint their own secretaries who have knowledge about the topics that they talk about in order to record the discussions, and keep track of actions, suitably. When it comes to reports to the Board, though, then the Board Secretary should play an important role. I agree with your other points though. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:29, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

There is a lengthy debate that could be held on the transition from a operational to a purely strategic role. Certainly, I was never on-board with the board switching so abruptly to being purely strategic, given the many issues that the operational side of WMUK has (I still estimate that the board is at least a year away from being in a position that the operational activities of WMUK can be fully and confidently delegated to the staff!). Likewise, it's worth noting that there are a number of Hudson Review recommendations that I have serious objections to, so I would strongly encourage the board to continue to avoid adopting these recommendations only where they make sense for WMUK rather than <insert generic charity here>. Whether or not it was a legal requirement for WMUK to have a company secretary was never as issue - it hasn't been a requirement since before WMUK existed, but it was always thought to be essential until I resigned from the role (and I seriously doubt that the CEO is actually carrying out the necessary work here, although I do trust the WMUK staff that this work has likely been delegated to will effectively do the necessary work here.) One of the important roles of the Governance Committee is to set out formal roles for the office-bearers, so they really need to do their job here. There is currently no such thing as a WMUK "secretariat", so I would avoid referring to such a position until it is (or *if* it is) properly set out, although I broadly agree with your other points about what the secretary's role could be. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:10, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mike by 'secretariat' I meant 'staff in the office'. As to whether the CEO and staff are currently carrying out the necessary work in terms of functions previous exercised by a volunteer Company Secretary, the two matters of immediate concern around the time the Board agreed to abolish that role were (1) submission of our accounts to the Charity Commission and (2)submission of our annual return to Companies House. Both of these have been done. Were there other specific things you were concerned about? Mccapra (talk) 11:31, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposal for a chapter Request for Comment process

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

I would like to propose a simple supplement to the Water cooler, a parallel of the standard RFC process that we use on many Wikimedia projects. This would give the chapter a light-weight process for assessing the views of our members (and others interested) without resorting to surveys or EGMs.

I would be happy to see alternative ideas on how this could work successfully, but I suggest the following characteristics to fit the chapter:

RFCs should be written to be short and positive. They are kept to simple propositions of less than 50 words which can be answered with a binary "support" or "oppose" and may link to supplementary essays, case studies or guidelines as necessary. If an RFC becomes overly complex or divisive, it may be closed down early or replaced by a better written RFC.
Consensus is not a vote (hence the term "!vote" to refer to opinions), so to make it simpler to decide what is suitable for RFCs, we would like to see more than 75% supportive !votes.
RFCs should be unambiguously within the scope of the charity's mission.
A limit to the number of RFCs being raised in order to avoid "proposal fatigue". Perhaps no more than one per month as a rough guide, any more might be held in a backlog area, which could usefully act as a place to draft out new proposals.
A norm of at least 60 30 days might work well with a longer period agreed if there is extended discussion and research.
A minimum number of opinions are required to be valid. I am uncertain how to set this, we currently have 224 members, a minimum of 12 !votes might be wise for an RFC closure to count. Less than this and the RFC closes without real consensus.
Closure takes account of the proportion of board member, employee and unpaid volunteer numbers. It may appear contrived if the majority of !votes in a RFC were trustees and employees, a fair proportion of general members should be interested enough to take part for an RFC to count as meaningful (50%+ of !votes from general members perhaps?). Matters of operational interest but without much traction with members may be better as general discussion and board meeting reports rather than RFCs.
Non-members will be welcome to take part, though notification would normally be though channels focussed on members.

Note that much of the value of RFCs comes from discussion of consequential issues and detail, such as getting a better wording for policies, or resolving questions around implementation. --Fæ (talk) 17:37, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

This generally sounds good to me, but I think 60 days would be too long (and I suspect interest would die out long before the end of that period) - two weeks or a month would be much better. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:55, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm open to it. The norm on en.wp is to close at 30 days, while on Commons the minimum of 30 days is just that as RFCs tend to stay open for many months (in practice stagnating). What may work well here is to make a decision to close with a consensus or lack of sufficient consensus at 30 days, unless something came up during discussion that effectively rewrote the proposal and a few people are asking for more time.

With regard to who closes, I guess that is anyone interested, though what I see working well (for more complex RFCs) is that someone offers to be the closer a few days before the end is due, and then puts a bit of time aside into writing up a closure statement. Personally I don't see much harm in the proposer being the closer, but others may feel differently. --Fæ (talk) 18:02, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for posting this suggestion Fae. In principle I think this is a decent idea. It would certainly make identifying a consensus easier. It could be particularly useful for longer term ideas. There are a couple of things I think would need to be ironed out. Such a lengthy process doesn't lend itself to agility, for example. It adds a greater bureaucratic burden, too. It would need to be backed up with some cross-channel promotion as we know from experience and from the survey that not all of our members or volunteers find the wiki a particularly welcoming or friendly place but perhaps people could be encouraged to join the conversation when there's a particular topic with a defined outcome. A potential problem that I see is that there's often a tendency towards whispering positivity and loud negativity. I wonder to what extent that would have an impact on any process. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 18:17, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes it's not very agile but is a wiki-process so can adapt after being raised. Quick opinion polls are a different beast and do not currently fit our membership, perhaps apart from emails on wikimediauk-l (which is a not a chapter list, even if used as a channel).

Bureaucracy is minimal in my view. It does not need board or employee authorization, it can be flexible in format and it does not require any particular operational maintenance. Compared to, say, the expenses and bureaucracy of getting trustees to vote on something, this is extremely light-weight.

Yes, cross-channel notification would be good, but there is nothing here that could not be covered by current communications so I don't see additional costs (a link in a relevant blog post, if there is one, an email out to wikimediauk-l, a note on the main page of this wiki listing open RFCs).

As for negativity, I suggest RFCs are drafted before being proposed. If they are going to be disastrously controversial, then they probably should not be RFCs as we want to see a super-majority / solid positive consensus. Saying that, RFCs are often usefully cathartic, everyone gets one opinion and a few highly critical opinions are normal and often met with the usual 'meh' response. If someone starts lobbying on every opinion counter to theirs (as opposed to logical corrections or adding neutral new information), we might nudge them as to RFC etiquette from other Wikimedia projects; in practice the community tends to balance itself out on these things. --Fæ (talk) 18:34, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

This seems like a good idea, and while there are undoubtedly kinks that will need ironing out the best way to find them is to actually see how it works in practice. The only adjustment I'd make at this point would be to the bullet regarding scope - there are things such as the EU policy statement that would be well suited to an RFC format but are only ambiguously within the charity's scope. I can also imagine an RFC to determine whether something is within scope or not. The best way I think to express this while keeping RFCs focused on charity business may simply be to change "RFCs should be unambiguously within the scope of the charity's mission." to "RFCs should be directly relevant to the scope of the charity's mission.". Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 19:06, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

First time editor, long time listener. I have a few concerns here. I list them below.

Speaking as someone who has in the past been heavily involved in the RFC process, RFCs are less successful than you might think. My experience is that they tend to polarise the decision making process - except when there is a supermajority, in which case the outcome was obvious in the first place and the RfC unnecessary!
The water cooler community does not seem to reflect our membership (ie. those entitled to a view in how the charity is run). It certainly doesn't reflect my views, and seems to be used by a hard-core of Wikipedians (a dozen at most). I find it difficult to believe that these dozen, however well meaning, reflect all 200 members! In short, I cannot see any way to make this proposed process inclusive of all of our members, including those who don't or can't use the water cooler (I know of three friends, also members, who are incapable of using it). I am seriously worried that this proposal actively discriminates against those people by offering them no other way to get involved and ensuring that their voices cannot be heard.
The proposal talks about 'opinions' (!votes), but counts them as votes (with support/opposes, majority decision making, a minimum number of votes etc) in so many ways that they become votes in all but name. If we want a genuine request for comment, it need be no more complex than we currently use: eg a notice sent on the water cooler and the mailing list reading "please comment on the proposal at X" - which is exactly what we currently do!

TLDR: I am concerned that this proposal fails to solves a problem we don't have, using a solution we already use... it needs a lot more work! Flossing a Dead Horse (talk) 19:59, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

(My personal view - I am not speaking for the charity here). I would not like to see this, for three reasons. First, the RFC process is only really useful where there are so many editors that discussion needs to be formalized in order to encourage focus and ensure that it reaches a conclusion. That is not the case here, and adding additional rules and complexity is likely to detract from our efforts to be open and easily accessible to new contributors. Second, the process would introduce unnecessary polarization into community discussions and would open the door to all the negativities and conflicts that too often characterize such processes on WMF controlled sites. And third, the board of WMUK (a registered charity) has a legal duty to further the charity's objects to the best of its ability, and that legal duty cannot be overrridden on the basis of a !vote by the very small proportion of editors who are able to or who wish to contribute to this page. While openness and transparency are built into what the charity does, a formal RFC process would give a false impression that the board is here to follow the instructions of the editors of this page. The board welcomes but cannot be constrained by suggestions posted here; rather, it is subject to the votes of our members at the AGM. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

True. I guess our saving grace for this form of democracy is that with a minuscule number of members in comparison to the large funds the charity controls, the members should more often consider running EGMs, instead of RFCs, for anything where in the opinion of a minority of members the board does not appear properly to have taken on board or understood community views or values. Currently it only takes 5 signatories to require the board to organize a meeting and hold a legally binding vote.

By the way Michael, as you are the Chairman now, I cannot divorce your statement here from speaking for the charity; it is not really a hat you can easily lay aside when making public statements about charity processes or policy. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 11:12, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

12 signatures. Seddon (talk) 02:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Michael, your third response seems to assume that the issues that would be raised would be ones that the board would make decisions about. I'm not sure that necessarily be the case with questions that could be asked via this process - I'd have expected this to be a useful avenue for the staff to gain an understanding of the community's viewpoints on operational issues. Couldn't a system like this co-exist with the board's decision-making ability, and both reduce the number of items that the staff would have to raise with the board and also give the community more of a say in the work that the staff does? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:33, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Tangent
Why do you believe it takes 12 members to call an EGM rather than 5, given we have around 225 registered members? --Fæ (talk) 09:28, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Under the Companies Act 2006, the directors are required to call a general meeting once the company has received requests to do so from 5% of the total voting rights of all the members having a right to vote at general meetings. 5% of 225, rounded up, is 11.25, so a request from 5 members would not be valid. You would need a minimum of 12. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 14:03, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Could you stick to one account please? You are an employee of the UK chapter, writing on this wiki, or any other website, under different account names does not legally change any responsibilities for what you choose to publish about the chapter or its members. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:17, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Please assume good faith, Richard is not using the account to avoid legal responsibilities as you are suggesting. By the by, the latest membership numbers are 237 rather than 225. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 14:21, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Today I'm not at work - I'm on holiday. I have the right to get involved with discussions that affect the charity I'm a member of. I was a teller at the last few general meetings so I thought myself best placed to answer your questions about general meetings and company law. Nevertheless, I am sorry if my conduct is confusing and I will try my best to be clearer in future. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 14:40, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Thanks. I would expect any employee of the charity to always use their employee identity when writing about the charity and its processes. I will take your statement as a commitment to stick same account or make your identity known if you are using other identities on other websites to publicly write about the charity or its members, or indeed to be transparent if you are writing via others. I had thought this was both a consequence of the employee contract and pretty obvious good practice. This is not a choice between your human rights and the employee contract. --Fæ (talk) 15:19, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Fae, that really wasn't nice. That's a shame as this tangent was otherwise quite interesting. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:26, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Seems that a lot is being read into basic good practice. No representative of the charity should believe that any form of pseudonymity, meatpuppetry or sticking "this is my personal view" at the end of a public comment or allegation may not come back to bite them and the charity. I am surprised that I have had to spell this out so many times over the past couple of years. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 19:34, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Members of staff and trustees are perfectly entitled to have personal opinions, and to share those opinions by speaking in their personal capacity. It is absolutely best practice for someone with an official capacity in an organisation to make explicit with which hat they are speaking when there is a possibility of confusion, and the use of a personal account is one acceptable method of doing so. Only people with authority to act on behalf of WMUK who are acting in that capacity have the right to associate or disassociate the charity with remarks not made on behalf of the charity. My understanding is that this authority is held only by the board of trustees and the staff, and that you presently hold neither position. Thryduulf (talk: local \| en.wp \| en.wikt) 19:51, 13 December 2013 (UTC) There is a difference between having an opinion and choosing to publish it (particularly libellous or defamatory allegations). Trustees are free to follow their conscience and publish as they see fit. It is one of the expectations for the behaviour of a UK charity trustee to be able to speak up if things are going wrong (there are plenty of recent legal cases of charity fraud that illustrate why this is a good thing). The same is not true of employees, who would not just appear remarkably foolish to publish statements which damage the charity they work for, and probably their own careers, but they would be by-passing the employment policies in place that give them the ability to complain about any issue they believe they have. As for me, I am not an employee of the charity, so yes I am free to publicly call anyone a bad name if I want to, and this is only my problem not the charity's, unless I were delivering an event as a named volunteer for the charity as I do from time to time. Luckily for wiki projects I always use the same identity so there is never any confusion, as I did when I was a trustee, I don't really understand why others feel the need to do otherwise and jump from one to the other willy nilly (as can be seen in email correspondence even today). --Fæ (talk) 21:27, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

I can't see how this proposal would help solve any problems we actually have. The best point in it is that contributions to discussions should be "short and positive" - I would certainly endorse that - but otherwise it strikes me as a procedure that's unneccessary and unlikely to be helpful. The Land (talk) 12:59, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Training the Trainers February 2014 event (split from Water Cooler notification of Training event)

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

Thanks Katie. I have lost track of how the training contract was re-awarded to Midas, I am aware that this is the largest services contract in terms of how the charity's money is spent. Where can I find records of the last open invitation to tender for the training programme? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:16, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I was not involved in the original tendering process, so am unable to provide details on that other than point to Training the Trainers/Tender. Per recommendations resulting from the review conducted earlier this year, the re-tender process will take place early next year. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 15:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I had thought that the tender process was going to be before spending on the next tranche of training, my mistake. I am familiar with what happened in 2012, being a trustee throughout that year and particularly interested in monitoring how the tender and a related conflict of interest were managed. If there is a schedule for this key open tender, it would be useful to share it with the members. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:57, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

We have agreed to go to tender for the future Train the Trainers in the new Financial Year for TtT from September onwards. This is later than we would have intended but the review process suspended the programme and so we are catching up. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 11:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

A pity, considering that this is the largest value service contract the charity has, there remains a declared conflict of interest from a current trustee with how this supplier was introduced to the charity, and were later issues with how the contract was managed.

Where can I see a summary of how much money has been spent to date on this contract(s)? I previously estimated that WMUK spends more than £800 per head on train the trainer weekends, which I think excluded expenses such as hotel bills and travel, though this figure was neither confirmed nor rebutted by anyone handling operations. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:49, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I believe that the latest public financial and budget information is being worked on now, following the December board meeting, and will be published at about the same time that the minutes of that meeting are ready. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:28, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I am grateful that financial reports have become increasingly reliable over the past year.

You may recall from my time on the ARC that I was concerned that financial reporting of contracted work should take into account cumulative spends rather than only the most recent payment, or payments for particular items. I believe this was put in to operation so that the most appropriate controls, such as procurement audits or checks, would be chosen based on the cumulative risk to the charity rather than leaving risks effectively hidden due to the nature of repeat contracts. Consequently I would expect that the current total cumulative spend with Midas Training Solutions since our first purchase from them in 2011 (when I selected them as a supplier) would be available in a current report to the board of trustees and in line with our shared commitment to openness and transparency, that this should be suitable to be a published report accessible to members of the charity. See related Action 10 in Audit and Risk Committee/Meeting 2013-04-29.

I am sure you are busy with other stuff, so I appreciate your response here. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 16:48, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

This is the first I recall hearing, of a decision to hold a new tender process. Where does this leave the recommendation of the original review panel, "The CE to approach [Andy Mabbett] with a view to supplying WMUK with services to this effect, leading our work in this area and coordinating other volunteers to deliver quality training."? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 00:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Note: I believe that Andy is referring to Training the Trainers/Tender Action 3, the actionee being Jon Davies. --Fæ (talk) 07:01, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Andy, responding to your email query: my personal take on this is that I proposed the above suggestion based on my own judgement about the expertise available. A great deal has happened since then, not least that we've had trainer assessments with detailed audits of our individual skills by professional consultants. My judgement then has been rendered moot by these developments. I still admire your dedication to giving newcomers a good experience with Wikipedia, and to sharing your good practice. My judgement that you're the appropriate person to lead the relationship with a partner organisation, if the appropriate opportunity arises (which was the context of my recommendation) has been borne out by the roles you've had since. On the other hand, WMUK has a group of lead trainers now, and past decisions don't overrule that. Nothing stops you putting in a tender to the new process. MartinPoulter (talk) 11:19, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

£262.44 this year to Midas owing to the aforementioned delays. Next one will happen in financial year 2014-15. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 17:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Jon, thanks for publishing a figure.

It seems an odd figure, considering there have been training courses delivered this year and over £19,000 was in this year's budget—which means that all the 2013-14 budget has been entirely underspent and must now be carried over into 2014-15, however there is no indication of this track record at 2014 Activity Plan/Train the Trainers where the board of trustees has chosen to increase the budget by 26% to £24,000.

You appear to saying that the total cumulative payments to Midas Training Solutions for this financial year (Feb 2013 to Feb 2014) will remain at £262 pounds. Considering that each trainer weekend costs the charity something like £6,000 to 8,000 in fees from Midas Training Services, I am unclear what we purchased for this small amount of money, or where to find records of payments for the training that has been delivered.

Could you provide the cumulative total spent on Midas Training Solutions as a supplier as per my original request?

Thanks in advance for your help in assuring that these figures are understood by our membership. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 17:51, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

It is £17,600 according to our figures - most of which we supplied to you before, perhaps you could check? I hope this is helpful.The procurement review by the way is being done in the New Year and will be reported in due course. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 12:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Archiving this page

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

If you've left comments on this page, then I'd like to suggest that you say thank you! to Richard Nevell for taking the time to archive this page every so often, which prevents it from becoming unusably long. Thanks Richard! :-)

Can I suggest, though, that we think about setting up a bot to automate archiving this page, to save Richard from having to do the job? User:lowercase sigmabot III is currently doing a similar job on enwp - perhaps someone could set up a copy of that bot and operate it here? The source code of the bot is available, so it could be a simple task for someone that knows Python to do? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:08, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thank you to Richard and everyone else who keeps the wheels turning. How often would this page be auto-archived? Archiving does tend to curtail discussions so it might be best not to do it automatically? It's no coincidence that the debate on splitting this page has come back to life when that section is next to be archived is it? Philafrenzy (talk) 18:47, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd suggest auto-archiving threads a week or two after the last comment on them. The water cool splitting discussion was probably more resuscitated by the discussion at the board meeting than it was it appearing at the top of the page; personally I think it might have been more navigable if it had been done in several discussions rather than one big one, as the title of that section is rather outdated now. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:10, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

The above has been moved from Water cooler, which is teh subject under discussion. Does it also apply here? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:04, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the notices Andy, very helpful. I think the above thread does still apply to this page, and this page would probably be the place to raise such issues in the future too. I guess in this transition period there will be some such posts which are slightly out of context where they would not be had they originated on this page. If there are any threads you think really don't work moved across let me know (and I'll keep an eye out too) but I don't think that's the case at the moment (copying to both pages) Sjgknight (talk) 15:51, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

In terms of archiving of sections, then I think it applies to both pages equally. If an archival robot works the same as at least some do on en.wp then the trigger is time elapsed since the latest timestamp in the thread. This means that a discussion can be prevented from archiving before it is complete by manually entering a future timestamp - e.g if the archiving is set to say 1 month without comment, but a response is expected at the beginning of February, entering a timestamp of "12:00, 20 January 2013 (UTC)" will mean it isn't archived before 20 February, regardless of whether anyone has posted in the thread or not. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 14:30, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

OTRS email confidentiality disclaimer

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

After a discussion on meta, WMF Legal have created this disclaimer for wherever OTRS email addresses to volunteer queues are quoted:

Disclaimer: E-mail to this address is reviewed and responded to by volunteers from our user community. Please understand that the Foundation cannot guarantee confidential treatment of any sensitive information you include in your message.

I doubt the wikitable format is essential, but probably best to leave it this way. I note that on Contact us a standard wikimedia.org address is quoted, I recommend the disclaimer is added there under the address, I hesitate to do this myself as I have no operational authority to make changes. If anyone knows of other places on this wiki where we quote OTRS email queues, this disclaimer should be added against each instance.

This is not relevant for addresses directing to Wikimedia UK's email system, however we may wish to consider something similar as a disclaimer for any email queues (such as for the fundraiser) where volunteers in addition to employees have access to email sent to "official" addresses.

For those of you not wanting to plough through the page on meta, the issue here is protection for the volunteers rather than the organization. In particular if there were to be an allegation that private information from emails was misused or compromised, this disclaimer would help avoid the volunteer being the target of personal claims for damages. It is worth noting that, based on the last time I checked it when I was a trustee, volunteers for Wikimedia UK that are acting in recognized roles (such as helping with fundraising queries or running training courses) do have liability insurance provided by the charity and I assume this applies for anyone helping with the chapter email queues. Unfortunately the WMF has no equivalent insurance to help protect volunteers answering email on the main Wikimedia OTRS queues. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 07:48, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fae. I have added the disclaimer - this is sensible. You are right in saying that our insurance covers volunteers for certain roles. However, you say that "Unfortunately the WMF has no equivalent insurance to help protect volunteers answering email on the main Wikimedia OTRS queues.". I do not think this is an accurate statement and I would like to correct it: my understanding from my discussions with Geoff, Sue and others is that the Legal Fees Assistance Program has covered, and continues to cover, the WMF's Email response team members. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:21, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, this was brought up on the meta discussion. However it is not independent liability insurance, or any other type of insurance, and remains discretionary and stated as unreliable, as stated in the definitions under "No guarantees". Scenarios where this would definitely not be used includes if a member of the public alleges misuse by an OTRS agent and the WMF feels there is a case for them or another party to claim damages from the volunteer, this may even become a requirement of the WMF's own insurance cover.

As an issue this was raised in the meta discussion, there was no clear answer from WMF Legal apart from stating that insurance cover was sufficient, and then later confirming that there is no insurance for volunteers. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:45, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of the discussion - I was part of it :-). You asked some very useful questions which needed asking. That said, I still don't think the statement you made was accurate. Regardless, the WMF's insurance or lack thereof is not really an issue for WMUK's: we are insured for our own volunteers doing work on our behalf. To go back to the initial point you made, I'll get Richard N to go around updating the disclaimer on our pages where he finds it. Thanks for letting me know! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 15:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I get it, I am not representing a view of Wikimedia UK and unless the board of trustees wishes to publish a position, I doubt there will ever be one. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:16, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Can I suggest some rephrasing? Saying "the Wikimedia Foundation" in the middle of the WMUK contact page seems a bit odd - perhaps say something like "neither Wikimedia UK nor the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate the global volunteer helpdesk)"? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:33, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I see no reason why it cannot be adapted better to fit this site, so long as we drop a note to WMF legal to say that's how we have chosen to do it. If there is some issue we are unaware of, it would be up to them to advise. --Fæ (talk) 15:38, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Sure Mike, I'll let Richard N know. Thanks for the suggestion. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 15:58, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I think that takes care of it. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 17:07, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Survey results

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

It was mentioned above that the survey results are to be anonymised, and presumably the results collated too, by a volunteer in the new year. Given some of the highly personal information gathered in the survey, I don't think it is appropriate for this job to be done by a volunteer, however trustworthy that person may be. I am sure that respondents would have expected that their replies would remain entirely in-house, be treated with the utmost care, and that the anonymisation would be done by a member of staff operating under the supervision of a senior employee of the organisation who was able to ensure the confidentiality of the data and that applicable data protection rules were followed. That certainly would have been my assumption. If this job has not started, I believe that is how we should do it. I assume that there was no intention to transfer the raw data to the computer of the volunteer, as that would indeed be a grave breach of confidentiality. Philafrenzy (talk) 19:01, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

There are two parts to the survey, one anonymous (the second part, almost entirely demographic information) and the other (the first part) not. Certainly I wouldn't expect, as a volunteer, to see non-anonymised data (whether raw or aggregated) from the second part. Raw data from the first part would present less of a problem, but there is absolutely no reason for any data to be treated in any sort of cavalier way or for any data protection rules to be breached.

What would people think of a volunteer seeing non-anonymised data if that person signed a confidentiality agreement that held them to the same standard and the same/equivalent terms as a staff member? Personally I wouldn't have an issue, but I know I am less protective of my information than some people so I may not be representative. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 21:50, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I realised there may be different parts, treated in different ways. My own view, as above, is that the only safe way to do this is to do the whole thing in house. That should be possible as when last reported there were only 57 replies. I don't think that drawing up a separate confidentiality agreement is really necessary or desirable here and would be of little comfort if the whole lot leaked as the damage would be done. And certainly the raw data should never leave the office on anyone's laptop, in an email or a memory stick, whoever does the job. (I realise it has already been gathered on an external server in the cloud somewhere). Philafrenzy (talk) 22:07, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Getting us started

Now we have an engine room perhaps we can go full speed ahead!

We're still working on the text to go in the "welcome" at the top of this page. Over the next couple of days I'll be moving appropriate threads over from the water cooler to here. cheers Sjgknight (talk) 20:28, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

(Update) I've now gone through the process of moving threads regarding WMUK operational matters to the newly created Engine room, while keeping threads around our activities and getting involved on this page. This will be our first attempt at creating different spaces for different types of discussion, and we're still working on the headers for these pages (the divs now inserted at the top of the page). If you watch the Water cooler you may also want to add the Engine room to your watch list. I've also moved the Water cooler up to the "get involved" section on the sidebar. The new Engine room can be found under 'organisation' on the sidebar. If you think I've incorrectly moved something, or have a suggestion for how we should define and describe these places do let us know (ideally here in the Engine room). Finally, I look forward to seeing people engage on both pages. Cheers Sjgknight (talk) 21:29, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't get it. WMUK doesn't have an engine? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:41, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't have a water cooler either! Sjgknight (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Cheers Simon, let's see if this split ups the engagement level as I hope it will. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 10:12, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Simon, good work on this. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:18, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, and now we have room for an engine:

"Two telegraph units must be installed; one to be installed on the bridge and the other one in the engine room." 86.132.101.239 00:13, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

QRpedia technical and organizational issues (was QRpedia what next? on the Water Cooler)

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

We are now dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's on QRpedia. The next question is how do we make sure the community benefits from it? Do we need training, events etc. We have already started a FAQ page to help those who want to use it but is there more we can do?

Can we get some ideas going?

Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 15:30, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

There's a parallel discussion on the UK mailing list (aside: it's almost always better to have one discussion, and post pointers in other places). I've posted a link there to Wikipedia:QRHowTo and mentioned the outstanding development tickets. By FAQ, you eman, I think, meta:QRpedia. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:45, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

The important milestone here is the domains being transferred to WMUK's ownership, as it's only when that happens that this issue is really resolved. Until that happens, I would recommend that WMUK doesn't do anything to advertise QRpedia, although starting to plan to do things after that milestone makes a lot of sense. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:43, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

As of today, qrpedia.org is registered to Terence Eden. I am puzzled as to why a domain transfer takes more than a day to sort out. Mike used to do this sort of thing live during our board meetings. Is there some problem that the members have yet to be told about? --Fæ (talk) 15:20, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Please note the action here from the last Technology Committee. I have communicated with Tom already again today and as I understand it determining a mutally convenient time and getting hold of Roger had been issues but he was going to re-chase.

The reason we didn't just rush through a transfer was a planned intention to let users know the domain would transfer before it did and I'm awaiting a date to go to users with. Will update on here again tomorrow. Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer. I do not understand why there would be a necessary connection between updating the registered owner and changing of servers. One is a legal record of ownership, the other is the specific operational set up. I look forward to finding out what the date/plan is going to be tomorrow. --Fæ (talk) 17:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

The combination of Xmas, co-ordination of three people and assurances as to the processes we're undertaking means there has been a bit of a delay. I've been dashing all over the place for the last week so it's been a bit difficult connecting with people (kids + christmas = nightmare combination). But I am sure we'll get through this in the next couple of days! --ErrantX (talk) 19:59, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Updating the owner of the domains sadly isn't as simple as just changing the contact information that's available through whois for a domain. It requires transferring the control of the domain to the new owner, which generally means moving it from one domain registrar to another (or at least, moving it from one account to another at the same registrar). This also means transferring from one set of settings to a new set of settings. Yes, this new set can be the same as the previous set, but that does need a lot of precise communication beforehand to make sure that the new set is exactly the same as the old set - and any differences can easily cause a lot of downtime. It's much better if there is sufficient communication time available to those involved in the transfer of a website to ensure that the new host has fully set up the new site on their hosting and can set out the new settings in their registrar's control panel in advance of the transfer taking place.

I don't think that I ever conducted the transfer of a domain during a board meeting - if I did, then it would have been between two accounts that I controlled, which is different from the issue here. I could register a new domain name during a board meeting, but that's also a different issue. The transfer of a domain from one owner to another will always inevitably take a reasonable amount of time time, which should be given to those working on this before they're subjected to criticism. ;-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 01:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Update: Hello all. I have spoken to Roger this afternoon and he will unlock the second domain for transfer tomorrow when he is not occupied with family commitments. Following this Tom will make arrangements to switchover the DNS settings on the weekend (Sunday 22nd) and I will contact known existing users via mailing lists/direct email. There will be a formal announcement on here too. Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 14:43, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

QRpedia domain transfer update

This discussion has been moved here from the Water cooler.

Dear all,

In January it was announced that Wikimedia UK had reached an agreement with Roger Bamkin and Terence Eden to accept the donation of the intellectual property rights of QRpedia to Wikimedia UK. WMUK are choosing to do this via a company called Cultural Outreach limited.

This will mean that in future the site qrpedia.org will be managed by Cultural Outreach Ltd and governed by the Wikimedia UK Website Privacy Policy.

Both the domains qrpedia.org and qrwp.org have been transferred to the registrar maintained by Cultural Outreach Ltd as of today. This is a notice that the server hosting for the sites will be changed at 22:00 on Sunday 22nd December. Users should not notice any difference, however there is the very slight chance that in some cases QR codes may not work for short periods during the switch.

If you experience a problem you can report it by emailing Tech@wikimedia.org.uk or by logging a bug at the Wikimedia UK install of bugzilla (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org.uk/)

Thanks all - Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 16:54, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

This is very good news - well done! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:46, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Liability insurance for OTRS volunteers

Does WMUK's liability insurance for volunteers cover project activities where we may be corresponding through OTRS and to what extent?

For example, I sometimes add tickets to images to confirm copyright status on Commons and these may be in support of WMUK projects. I am particularly interested in scenarios with civil suits for damages against our volunteers from correspondents who may feel they have been treated badly or misrepresented or civil suits by the WMF against an OTRS volunteer. It would be useful to have considered responses based on the terms of the current insurance policy (which is no longer available publicly, certainly I do not have a copy) and potentially an official statement from the charity, rather than informal or speculative replies.

I have raised a suggestion for a risk warning notice at m:Talk:OTRS/Volunteering#Liability_and_risk_warning_for_prospective_volunteers.

Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:24, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK only ever intended to have insurances for volunteers while they are "undertaking activities, officially, on behalf of Wikimedia UK". Acting as a volunteer on WMF OTRS is not, has not, and will never be considered as acting on behalf of WMUK. This extend to Wikimedia project activities in general such as editing Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons etc. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 13:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the official clarification. There seems a slight contradiction in the statement as a volunteers can and do take part in projects officially funded by Wikimedia UK which are advised to use OTRS as a process for confirming copyright releases, there are many examples and this is a normal part of our official training courses for volunteers. If all WMF OTRS activities are not and have never been covered by our insurance, then this is a definite change in official policy since we first purchased the insurance when I was a trustee. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 13:25, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fæ. My memory agrees with Katie's. However, if it were part of a WMUK activity then I'd have thought that part of it would be covered, e.g. if someone raised an issue with being advised to contact OTRS then that would be covered, but if someone had been involved on OTRS in processing the release and applying it to the projects then they wouldn't be covered as that couldn't be counted as an action on behalf of WMUK. It would be good to see a clarifying wiki page setting out what counts as a WMUK activity (particularly when talking about 'officially') and what doesn't, though. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:31, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I will discuss this with our insurers when I am back at work next week. In the meantime, and without documents to hand, my recollection is that volunteering for the WMF as part of the Volunteer response team (OTRS) is not and never has been covered by our insurance. Mike is right that this needs clarification, but in the meantime if anyone has any concerns about whether they are covered for a particular activity, they should email myself or Jon and we'll check. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 22:32, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Great, thanks, it would be good to have a clear official statement. The documents always used to be on the office wiki as well as previously available to all volunteers on this wiki. I would recommend keeping them on the office wiki so that they are easy to find for anyone with access and so that any trustee, contractor, staff member or others with access can answer questions about insurance for volunteers on our projects.

As an active volunteer can I have a copy of the current insurance policy as it relates to my activities please? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I will discuss this with our insurers too. Last time I spoke with them, they advised against circulating copies of our full policies, especially online - we wouldn't be able to ensure they were kept securely. I will try and get an answer for you. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 18:19, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I was asked to remove a statement that I had professional indemnity insurance from my website, even though it was a legal requirement for me and everyone else in the same profession to hold it. I think the insurers here are probably more worried that publicising the cover will encourage claims somehow, rather than anything else. Why would the policy details need to be kept secure really? Philafrenzy (talk) 00:56, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Insurance details do not need to be kept secure from the insured parties, in fact I believe there is a legal requirement on an insurance company to provide access to the policy to the insured (i.e. volunteers for Wikimedia UK). My impression from this discussion is that Wikimedia UK has refused to provide a copy of the insurance policy, or access to it, in response to a request from an insured party. As the legal definition of insurance is a contract between the insured and the insurer, if the insurer is now requiring Wikimedia UK to keep the contract secret from the insured, then the contract can be considered invalid.

If someone were to provide me with the name of the insurance company and the policy number, then I am happy to offer to spend my time giving them a phonecall (as an insured party) and provide some factual feedback here, rather than wasting any more employee time on this bureaucracy/game of Chinese whispers. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 06:52, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, as I said earlier, "I will discuss this with our insurers when I am back at work". I am now back at work, have dealt with the most urgent tasks, and can focus on requests from volunteers: I have also received a reply from the insurers. I must impress upon you the need for patience, this sort of thing can't be hurried.

You will be pleased to know that I have spoken to the insurers and that although they have reservations about making the policy public, I have discussed this with Jon, and we have agreed that the risk to the charity is minimal. I will email you a copy of the policy as soon as I have time - I expect this will be in the 24 hours. You will note that you are probably not covered for the data protection risks that doing OTRS volunteer work for the WMF involves. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 16:05, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Sent! Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 16:34, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Received. Unfortunately this is not the relevant policy. You have emailed me a copy of the current privacy protection/breach insurance (supplied by Hiscox) that as I recall the charity only started purchasing after the WMF made it a requirement of payment processing. It is a form of technical insurance for data, which specifically excludes liability resulting from any services provided by the charity, so it not only excludes volunteers from its cover, it actually excludes services from employees or contractors.

Could you supply the correct insurance policy that is relevant to the activities of the charity and to which I believe I and all other active volunteers are insured parties? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 17:26, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Of course. There are a few redactions I'll have to make, but I'll try and get it to you in the next few days - it's a much bigger policy and is printed on weird embossed paper so I'll need to scan the pages individually (they don't go through the feeder properly). Out of interest, what is it you'd like to check? Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 19:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

As an insured party I would like to exercise what I believe is the normal legal advice that parties to a contract read the contract. I believe all unpaid active volunteers for the charity would be sensibly advised that they should understand and have access to any insurance policy that applies to their activities before volunteering to deliver services or benefits on behalf of the charity. Should I ever be sued for damages when working as an unpaid volunteer for the charity, for example as a result of volunteering to support an editathon, when I have records showing every reason to believe that I am covered by appropriate insurance, I do not want to be caught out by only then finding out that the Chief Executive had made a decision at some point to renegotiate the terms of the policy and not tell me or any other volunteer about it.

That the insurance company Wikimedia UK has chosen as a supplier appears to be putting up apparently arbitrary obstacles in the way of sharing the insurance policy with the insured parties, I find not only bizarre but in all likelihood would be found unacceptable behaviour by the Financial Services Authority. If you are defining policy for Wikimedia UK, it may be worth checking directly with the FSA on this point, rather than relying solely on what might be a misguided middle-manager within the insurance company. --Fæ (talk) 20:47, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

As I have said, I will be sending you the insurance policy as soon as I can. No-one has put up any barriers. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 11:03, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The barrier as described in this thread has been introduced by the insurance supplier by insisting that Wikimedia UK remove the policy from the website, where members and volunteers could easily access it, and volunteers have to ask for a special redacted version to be created which required authorization from the Chief Executive which may or may not be granted based on unspecified criteria and may take several days. --Fæ (talk) 11:41, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

December board meeting

The minutes of the December board meeting are now available at Minutes 7Dec13 and Minutes 8Dec13. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 12:16, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Michael for posting these. It's a shame to see that WMUK has moved away from the good practice of specifying who voted which way on decisions made at the meeting; it's sad that this transparency has been lost. It's good to see that the transparency of the meeting reports will be improved, though. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:17, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Mike, on your first point, I think that this has been happening for several board meetings now. I don't recall why or how it started happening, though. Maybe there was an old board decision that I have forgotten, but if it turns out that procedure has just drifted without discussion then I will ask the board to have that discussion. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Has it? In past meetings the names have been omitted if it were unanimous, but recorded if anyone objected or abstained. E.g. see the 'Approval of 2012-13 Accounts' section of Minutes 13Jul13 or the 'AM potential CoI' section of Minutes_14Sep13 (of course, it's particularly important to clearly and publicly note who abstains when there's COI issues!). I can't spot a board decision on this issue in the recent minutes... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:36, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the earlier minutes, this does seem to have been drift rather than definite decision. I will bring this up at the next meeting, as we clearly do need to be consistent. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:02, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Mike Peel (talk) 16:30, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I share Mike P.'s concerns; and would also note that "there was an in camera discussion" should be expanded (for example "there was an in camera discussion of staff salaries"; "...of a potential financial donation". Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:17, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

+1, let's not let our the values drift such that we become just a boring, needlessly bureaucratic or opaque charity. --Fæ (talk) 17:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

The Engine room needs to look prettier

We need a nice Engine room picture to go on the top of this page. Can we get some suggestions going? We could post ideas here in a gallery. (ps the picture above is disqualified as it appears to show a wheelhouse not an engine room). MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:59, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions for images:

Suggestion 1

Does it matter if it is a U Boat? Philafrenzy (talk) 19:23, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

So long as I don't have to spend another weekend in a gigantic phallic object dressed as a German sailor. --Fæ (talk) 19:32, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Interesting, Aksel Berg started out as an officer on a submarine, and went on to become one of the pioneers of cybernetics! Leutha (talk) 20:52, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

And was imprisoned by Stalin for three years in the meantime, becoming a government minister immediately on release. Here, it normally works the other way round! Philafrenzy (talk) 22:39, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Format of the newsletter

Just received the latest newsletter. I know somebody in the office spent a long time doing this so I hope nobody is offended by my comments, but I think we can do a lot better, particularly in presentation. I printed a few pages as a pdf and uploaded them here. This is how it appears on screen in a typical widescreen laptop. I hope we can start a discussion about the appearance and content of the newsletter. Here are my initial thoughts:

On the plus side, it's much better than it used to be!
The appearance is clunky and amateurish and not in keeping with what you would expect from a national charity.
The text wrapping around images is poorly formatted and the acres of white space either side of the content just looks weird.
This does not look like any other newsletter I get from anywhere. That must mean something.
It's boring, though that might just mean that we are boring.
We don't need the message from Jon at the start, you lose half your readers there straight away.
The content may now be too pared-down.
It could include a list of upcoming events in the body of the message and some kind of index at the start.
Should we pay to have properly designed member and donor newsletters prepared?
I would be interested to know what newsletter donors get, the wrong one could be costing us a lot more than the cost of having a proper one designed.
As this is the only regular communication with members, it seems a pity not to get it right.

Philafrenzy (talk) 00:02, 8 Janua ry 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this, I felt the last member's newsletter displayed poorly and seemed clunky. As the charity has several professionals employed full time in communications, the member's newsletter is a good chance to demonstrate these skills. --Fæ (talk) 07:45, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks Philafrenzy for your comments. I think that the member newsletter has come along way in a short space of time - considering that we didn't actually have one until fairly recently. There are some issues with the template which I know Katie is going to be looking at. But I can promise you that I have seen much, much worse. I'm sorry that you find the content boring. What would you suggest to make it more engaging to you? I quite like the mix, and other members have reacted positively, but getting more detailed feedback on what you think works, and doesn't, might be helpful. Also, what do you mean when you say that the content is too pared down? Do you mean in the email leads or the wiki version? It's a good idea to include events in the message and I'm sure Katie will note that for future editions. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Secondly, Fae - could you let me know where those "several professionals employed full time in communications" have been hiding please? Only I feel they aren't really pulling their weight and I'd quite like to have a word with them to see if they can take on a few of the things I don't have time for. If you see them, please pass on my contact details as I'm very keen to speak with them. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I've said this before in response to the members survey consultation where I responded to both Fae and Philafrenzy at great length. Well balanced feedback should include what doesn't work and what does. Do Philafrenzy and Fae have any positive comments? More importantly, beyond critique, can you offer more time to help improve the content again (not the template) to make it engaging? (I should note you are both past contributors I think (?) already so thanks for that!)

Katherine, could you please remove the implied criticism of Fae and myself in the paragraph immediately above. It's not appropriate as the initial post is intended to start a discussion on exactly the matter of what can be done better and includes several ideas on that subject. Thank you. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:03, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Now, as to the rest:

There was a competition to redesign the members newsletter banner in July which drew no responses.

The donors newsletter banner was professionally designed in 2012.

The members newsletter has been around for a year now. I believe Katy will be running a survey for feedback as a result. Perhaps it might be best to see if these are personal opinions or more widely reflected?

I don't think a differently designed template is bad idea providing it worked with Civi. Whether its worth doing should probably be based on the survey.

The donor newsletter design will continue to be led by testing results, surveys and feedback. I will be making some proposals in the new financial year (1st Feb) for how this is managed anyway so I'll have to ask you to hold onto your hats until then. Ta Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 11:23, 8 January 2014 (UTC).

I have responded to the above. My edits, and those of other contributors and employees, have been deleted and can be found in the page history for anyone interested. Speaking as a past Chair, I believe this is the first time that any Chairperson of this charity has chosen to exercise direct censorship on this website without there being an independent request to do so; if this action itself is worth discussing or reviewing, I suggest it is raised in a separate thread. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:11, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Action of the Chair to censor comments

I requested it. The The board and chief executive have a duty to protect the working environment of staff. Sjgknight (talk) 14:21, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Simon, thanks for your explanation (which I have broken out to its own thread). I never imagined that tampering with discussion threads on this wiki was a duty of the trustees, I am disappointed to see this is the choice now taken by the current trustees rather than leaving this to the CEO, which as I understood it when I was a trustee was where we agreed the fully delegated responsibility and authority for operational issues including personnel issues and complaints. As I recall, Katherine requested that an administrator look at removing a disguised apparent swearword from a comment by Philafrenzy, this would have been a perfectly reasonable action for an administrator to take. It did not require the Chair to be seen to intervene, and in my view neither did the entire dialogue, including comments from employees, require censorship or suppression.

Just to interject, can I make clear that this was an expression of exasperation about how things work here and not about any particular individual. I remain exasperated and frustrated. I may take up kick boxing. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not asking for the "critical" discussion to be restored, I am sure everyone is already tired of it, however I am concerned at seeing our current board of trustees using their authority to override or suppress free discussion of issues on this website or to be exercising their authority over such detailed operation issues that can be easily managed by volunteer administrators, or could be resolved through discussion with the people involved, if necessary by email, who would in all probability have removed their comments themselves if requested. If employees feel that comments are overly hostile, then the process should be that they avoid responding in any such thread and report this to the CEO for his action, rather than asking questions and personally engaging in the creation of a hostile environment.

The members of the charity should and must feel free to raise concerns with the operations of this charity. If we are unable to do so on this "Engine room" or anywhere else on this public wiki, then I suggest we advise members to express their concerns more freely by using the public email list wikimediauk-l, which employees or trustees do not have ultimate control over, even if at least one member of staff is an administrator there and I imagine he would wisely recuse from acting on any issue directly related to criticism of the operations of the charity.

Thanks for your help. --Fæ (talk) 14:38, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I confirm that members of the charity and volunteers are absolutely free to raise concerns with the operations of this charity, and that this page is the appropriate place for that to happen. I have deleted some text in compliance with the duty of the board, as employers, to protect the working conditions of individual staff of the charity. Neither I nor I hope anyone else will be continuing public discussion on this thread. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:50, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Your actions indicate that members are in fact not literally "absolutely free to raise concerns". Could you confirm that the board's duty as employers with regard to working conditions is fully delegated by the board of trustees to the CEO? If as the Chair and speaking on behalf of the board and responsible for your own actions here, you prefer not to answer any more questions on this topic, then it seems reasonable for members interested to continue this on the independent wikimediauk-l list. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:58, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Just to point out: I think this was accidentally removed and added it back, but Fæ has removed it again saying 'Please leave this to the Chair as his action on behalf of the board of trustees. My later comment I would like restored if these are.'. Over to you, User:MichaelMaggs. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:24, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Removing Richard N's comment was indeed a mistake, but he is content to leave things where they lie now. No further action needed. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Please note that this means that you (acting for the board of trustees and overriding the role of the Chief Executive) have chosen to restore employee comments made after volunteers had made responses, without restoring the comments from volunteers; what is left is a partial view of the conversation. I would prefer you to delete the whole conversation rather than misrepresenting me or philafrenzy in this way. If employees are free to express their views and opinions on this website, but not members of the charity, then this is no longer an open wiki. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 10:00, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Fæ, I've looked through the rest of what was deleted, and I can't see anything that replies to what Richard N. said. Maybe I'm missing something? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I did not mention replies to Richard N's comment. If you note the times of comments made that have been deleted by the Chair, comments by employees have been restored which were posted after other comments by volunteers that have now been deleted. Consequently the order of events is compromised and the discussion left on display is a misleading representation of events. To avoid misrepresentation any truncation should be to a fixed specific time with an explanation of why, or remove or restore the entire discussion; at the moment what we have is deliberate cherry picking by preferring comments made by employees and suppressing comments made by volunteers (of which only one comment has been highlighted as a possible problem with regard to "protect the working environment of staff", a role that by existing policy is the job of the Chief Executive to implement, not trustees). --Fæ (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Noted. I have re-deleted Richard's comment so that the thread is effectively now cut at a single point in time. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. As you have declined to answer my question with regard to the trustees acting in an operational role we previously delegated to the CEO, I presume this thread is effectively closed. --Fæ (talk) 18:44, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Key Performance Indicators for the Chief Executive

Could a member of the board of trustees please share with the members the top level Key Performance Indicators that the Chief Executive (and the charity) is measured against?

Now that Jon has been in the role for 3 years, it seems reasonable for the members to be able to see this published in a trend report spanning the duration of his employment. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 07:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The latest information on metrics can be found here. We will not be giving a running commentary before the strategy and metrics are open to public consultation in February, but I can say that the task force has met twice already and is meeting for a time this week. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Michael. The section you link to mentions metrics but not key performance indicators. It is not an automatic conclusion that the latter would ever be produced from the former. Could you confirm that Key Performance Indicators for the Chief Executive is an intended outcome, and that these will be published and tracked publicly so that the members of the charity can read them? By the way, as a past trustee I am fully aware that these were required as part of Jon's contract agreed three years ago and so are overdue. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The Water cooler needs to look prettier

We need a nice Water cooler picture to go on the top of ~~this page~~ the Water cooler. Can we get some suggestions going? We could post ideas here in a gallery. -MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

It's somewhat worrying that the WMUK Chief Exec has enough spare time to add pictures to nearly every section of this page! I'm sure there's much better things to be getting on with... :-( (Plus, they get in the way of leaving comments!) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 07:15, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate Mike's viewpoint. This is a discussion page, and unless the thread is directly connected to a particular image it is not normal on wikis to illustrate each thread as if they were a blog posts. MichaelMaggs' suggestion to put a photo at the top of the page is more in line with the way we see village pumps working on other projects. Although bandwidth is unlikely to me a massive problem for most readers or contributors, several photographs on a long page may discourage readers from accessing using mobile devices and could make the page unreadable or subject to time-outs if they are relying on a lower speed mobile connection. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think wiki thumb transclusions like this actually mean that most browsers will download the full size image file before rendering this page, so these images do add significantly to bandwidth and rendering times.

~~I am sure now Jon has been CE for 3 years, as per the lead item of the member's newsletter, he does not advice with regard to the norms of wikis. --Fæ (talk) 07:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)~~

On the technical point, the images are automatically resized by MediaWiki - there's no downloading the full images. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:13, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I’m inclined to think that where there are obvious images it's no bad thing to include them just as we add images to Wikipedia articles (or indeed blog posts). It makes the page more attractive and is minimal work particularly given the images can be used on the pages/events/activities they refer to, if it was lots of extra work certainly that woudld be bad. Given the markup goes at the top of the sections I'm not convinced it gets in the way of leaving comments(?), useful to consider if there are other problems though? Incidentally this discussion should really be moved to the Engine room (i.e. I think the whole discussion around the water cooler image should be there). Sjgknight (talk) 08:30, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

My comment about it getting in the way was because the image here is after the first comment, so my comment was straight after it which was a bit confusing to me. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Ah fair enough, yes I agree that's to be avoided where possible (particularly given it'd be good to have noobs posting on the water cooler!). I think this is the only one on here though. Sjgknight (talk) 08:48, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Mike don't worry it only took a few minutes of time in gaps doing other things. As to the images I am really happy to take tech advice - we don't want people to be put off by download times. On the other hand we need our watercooler to be a busy and buzzing place that is attractive to come to. The thumbnails draw attention to the different subjects and when new things come up help draw attention to them. Our website is sooooooooooooooo boring. If it is to be a way of encouraging new volunteers (and members) it has to be a lot better and this is one tiny step to drag it into the 21st century. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 08:43, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I have withdrawn my post above after this complaint by MichaelMaggs who felt it was sarcastic. My feeling is that Jon's criticism of this site is that it is "sooooooooooooooo boring" and needs to be dragged into this century appears dismissive of Mike's point by trivializing it. I believe Mike and I do live in this century and have quite a strong awareness of modern technology, I doubt we could be considered terribly out of date compared to anyone else who contributes to the charity. Perhaps this aspect of his communication style could be improved? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:04, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, Jon's comments about the site are appropriate and allude to problems that anybody with a professional background in web usability should be able to recognise, despite your eagerness to trivialise or deny them. Yes you "do live in this century and have quite a strong awareness of modern technology" and it's interesting that that's your case for expertise. This is not to say that adding images to discussion pages is a solution. I agree with what you say below that accessibility is a problem - across all Wikimedia sites, not just this one - and should be a priority. Other points about the appeal and usability of the site deserve the charity's attention too, bearing in mind that the site doesn't exist for its own sake but to showcase our work and invite an ever-growing audience to take part in or support it. Calling for improvements to Jon's communication style is supremely ironic given your quite desperate contributions on this wiki. Take this well-intentioned advice from a friend: that you've lost perspective on what is or is not appropriate communication style. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I have made no case for my expertise, only responded to Jon Davies' dismissive style that I would not expect from the CEO of a national charity. Your comment about "quite desperate contributions" is not friendly; my friends do not deride me in public. --Fæ (talk) 15:59, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for moving this Michael, an unusual case hopefully there won't be too many of this type, but generally I think if people want to talk about the function and form of the water cooler it should go here. Sjgknight (talk) 13:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions for images:

Suggestion 1
Suggestion 2

Being "pretty" versus ensuring access for all contributors

I ran a short test a couple of hours ago by attempting to reply in the above discussion using an Android tablet. The mobile edit interface is not available (can this be fixed?) so the edit box's behaviour for this website is erratic and becomes unusable, in my experience, for anything other than very short sections. Pretty images can make access more difficult, particularly for mobile devices. I believe mobile access is important, I have often dropped timely replies in discussion on Commons from my tablet and sometimes my mobile phone, this has been particularly useful when stuck on a train and catching up with discussions. Though the recent actions to prettify discussions on this site with tangentially connected photographs may be liked by some, I suggest that we define some basic house-style guides for different types of pages on this wiki, and consider testing our accessibility from mobile devices and tablets to ensure that style guidelines are effective.

It is entirely possible, for example, for the main page of this site to use different css rules, or even display quite a different page, depending on the platform accessing it, and these options are worth considering. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Fae, entirely agree this sounds sensible. From your post it sounds like the issue is the interface in general, not the newly added images, but I'm not sure that's what you mean? Regardless, accessibility for screen readers, etc. is also important and I don't know how we do on that front. Given articles, etc. have inline images there must be ways we can include images in these discussions (whether we want to or not) while still ensuring they're accessible no? I think the tech-committee may have a discussion about accessibility at some point. Sjgknight (talk) 15:00, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I would include images as an issue, as I mentioned in my comment. A house-style guide would cover when images were best used and when not, and may put limits to the types of image or other media file to be transcluded in certain situations. A discussion page may have an entirely different style to a proposal page or a static report. --Fæ (talk) 15:03, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

(EC) Hi Fae, I understand (I think) but I think what I was saying was that your current major issue was just flat out being able to access the mobile interface - not that the introduction of images had created a new problem on that front. Of course the broad point re: good practice for accessibility generally and mobile interfaces stands. Sjgknight (talk) 15:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

All good points. Thanks. Any thoughts from anyone as who who might have the willingness and expertise to start work on a page of recommendations? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:07, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I vaguely recall exactly the same discussion a year or more ago with regard to house styles. Mike Peel, our historian, can probably supply a link, or I think there was some preliminary work on the Office wiki by Stevie that you may want to review before starting a new exercise. As this is a closed wiki I do not have access to, I am only going by frail meat-memory.

By the way, I believe that house-styles for communications would normally be under the domain of the communications manager, which though he has changed his title to head of the department of External Relations, is probably still within his remit and would be better managed by him rather than being directed by unpaid volunteers. --Fæ (talk) 15:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Not that I can recall, I'm afraid. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 12:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Time is a bit malleable, the discussion could have been 3 years ago. Searching about finds Water_cooler/2012#House_style but no follow-on I can see. I am fairly convinced there is more somewhere on the office wiki, though it may have been part of our preparing terms of reference for some employees, certainly this came up more than once when I was interviewing applicants for the Communications Manager position. --Fæ (talk) 12:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Declarations for paid editing and related advocacy

In the light of the recent announcement by the Wikimedia Foundation that paid editing is not acceptable for employees, and the apparent swift termination of a long term employee, I believe it appropriate for the Board of Trustees of Wikimedia UK to agree a policy at the next board meeting to require employees, contractors and trustees to publicly declare any current or past paid editing activities, or related unpaid advocacy that may represent a potential conflict of interest.

The risk to the charity by allowing confidential declarations limited to the board in this area, or to "overlook" past paid editing (even if some years ago) is that a current board member, employee or contractor may be perceived to be deliberately misleading the Wikimedia community. Were this to be exposed then Wikimedia UK may suffer reputational damage if seen to be supporting procedures that protect this secrecy.

Considering the recent resignation of an Arbcom member, after avoiding a public declaration of off-wiki accounts where they were both publicly and non-publicly posting about matters related to Wikimedia projects, I would hope that the board would require employees and contractors to similarly interpret "related advocacy" as applying to "secret" accounts elsewhere whenever they can be seen to relate to Wikimedia projects or Wikimedia UK matters. The board of trustees will already be aware that such undeclared accounts exist.

Thanks --Fæ (talk) 12:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Can you rewrite the first paragraph without assuming that readers already know what you're talking about? Thanks in advance, MartinPoulter (talk) 15:02, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

How about starting with "A long term employee of the WMF has quickly left their employment after it was revealed that they have been editing Wikipedia on behalf of paying clients, a public statement has been issued by the WMF here." If this is still unclear, it might be better to ask on the related thread on wikimediauk-l.

You may find the recent discussion on the Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard or today's article on The Daily Dot helpful for context too. --Fæ (talk) 15:50, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that Fae. I personally wouldn't want to promise that such a policy could be delivered and agreed upon by the next board meeting. But it is a risk the board needs to consider and it should certainly be discussed. Seddon (talk) 22:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking it seriously. Rather than attempting a full policy, which I agree may take a while if community consultation and a check with employment law is needed, I suggest that the board discuss the couple of basic principles, perhaps as a short resolution statement, along with understanding the WMF's position at that time. With the principles agreed, policy can then be updated as necessary (such as COI policy, trustee code and employment policies). It would be useful from the member's perspective if this could remain as open a process as possible.

Lastly, there is no need for WMUK to have identical policies to the WMF, indeed our independent approach and needs for this governance issue may result in major differences in how paid editing declarations are managed and the circumstances in which they are considered legitimate; for example we may fund projects where contractors support the project, are declared paid editors, and this is part of their valued skill sets. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I made a reply on the UK email list, and I'd like to add to it here. To get started, I'm a contractor for WMUK, and tomorrow will be beginning fresh contract work on the VLE. So I'm within the scope of what Fæ is raising here. None of my edits on Wikipedia and the other projects has been for pay or other consideration.

Here is what I posted to the list:

/begins

On the details of the Sarah Stierch affair, which has been in the Independent for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Stierch

"Long-term employee" seems not quite right. She had a one-year fellowship in 2012. The Independent report said she was engaged in an evaluation project for editathons, which is true enough. I don't know the full extent of her recent portfolio of WMF activities. Stierch, as the WP article makes clear, is a significant activist over a range of things, and working for the WMF has been part of it. As usual, Wikipedia cannot be relied on for all information one might wish to have.

No doubt the WMUK Board needs to think this through. The implication that the "net" should be cast wide to look for COI, of those involved in the WMUK in any fashion, of course has different sides: a prudential approach is one of them.

As a coauthor of the original (2006) COI guideline on enWP, I have always been interested in the distinctions between "potential conflict of interest" (which is in a sense part of the human condition), perceptions of COI, and concrete "conflict of interest" in the guideline sense. The last of these relates rather precisely to the actual circumstance that someone is editing the project content in such a way as to prioritise outside interests over the best interests of the project. E.g. advocacy where there should be none.

/ends

To move further into the issue: I think there is a potential downside whatever is done, i.e. this is not a situation that can be dealt with simply by process. Let me explain my reasoning on that first. There are possibly unintended consequences of the approach Fæ is proposing, which you could call "clean hands".

And this seems evident in relation to "in residence" positions. One extreme consequence comes from reasoning this way: Wikimedians in residence are typically paid, and are typically editing, so they are paid editors. Now we don't accept that as a case for exclusion of the "in residence" concept, given that Wikimedians in residence are generally exemplary members of the community, of high reputation from the internal point of view, and will in any case know much better than most people what kind of editing is best for Wikipedia and the other projects.

Further, we probably don't accept that WMUK should distance itself from the "in residence" concept, or the people involved. So if they are also applying for staff and contractor positions at WMUK, such positions are going to be a plus on the CV. So far, so good.

But I noticed something about the tender document for the JISC Ambassador position, which is a kind of "in residence with roving brief" position, hence the name. The Ambassador was supposed to coach JISC staff in editing, but not to edit on JISC's behalf themself. The tender being a joint WMUK/JISC effort, this clearly represents a conscious slant in the direction of "clean hands".

I disagree with what was done there. If we actually want to avoid editing that is not only paid, but is advocacy on behalf of (say) an institution, this is the wrong way to go about it. As I have said, the generic "in residence" position in an institution ought to be held by a trusted community member; and it makes no sense to delegate editing about the institution to the staff of the institution, who will have only a fraction of the ideas of what is suitable editing, and far less a stake in the outcome being better for Wikimedia content. Anyone "in residence" will have a reputation to lose if they overstep the line and do advocacy, and I know of one who made it clear at interview that there is such a line.

To sum up: let us concentrate on the outcomes for the projects. We know perfectly well what is to be avoided: the "foreign body" in the community which can exist if there are editors actively cutting across basic content policies. That is why the issue is heated. It will not help, though, if too much finger pointing leads the chapter in the UK to overcompensate. Which in the detailed drafting in the JISC case seems to me to have already happened. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

January seems to show a decline in the number of events

If we examine Events/Archive just for January events, the heyday of Wikimedia UK appears to have been back in 2010-2012 when we doubled the number of events we were delivering each year, though this may be a "January" phenomenon. We have more employees now and claim to have more active volunteers, but the numbers have been static or going down rather than up, let alone doubling. So what do others think these numbers tell us about the organization's growth and performance over the last 3 years, compared to the 3 years before that? In comparison December shows a similar pattern, doubling each year until 2012 when it becomes static. In the last 3 years the budget for the charity has quadrupled, but this does not seem to have resulted in any proportionate growth in this potential Key Performance Indicator.

The table below is a sample and different samples may give significant variation. For a useful Key Performance Indicator for the charity this would need to be turned into a full trend chart of quantity of external events going back over the last 5 years showing the seasonal pattern. Once internal facing events such as board meetings and probably wikimeets are removed, the remaining numbers will be far more meaningful. It's about an hour or two of work to set up and then about 15 minutes a month to maintain as a report for the board of trustees. --Fæ (talk) 08:13, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Year	No. of events in January	No. of events in December
2009	1	1
2010	3	4
2011	6	8
2012	12	14
2013	11	14
2014	8	-

This is definitely an interesting statistic to measure (and it should be measured!), but bear in mind that it's not a measure of what's been achieved, but what has been done. It almost doesn't matter how many events are run if they all achieve a lot, e.g. in terms of number of people impacted by the events, number of new editors, number of existing editors retained due to the event, amount of content produced on the sites as a result of the events, etc. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 06:31, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that counting events is not great, but it is available when hardly any long term external-facing metrics are being published. This comes down to our continued poor and inconsistent measurement of outcomes (as in the purpose of any charity is the new outcomes it delivers to beneficiaries, in our case the benefit to public knowledge, not how many jobs we create, how many partners we have, how many lunches we can get with politicians, or how many articles we can get in the national press). It still amazes me that after more than 3 years of having a full time CEO, he and the board of trustees has yet to agree a set of firm and credible key performance indicators, or any firm performance targets. This makes the job of reviewing the CEO's performance almost entirely subjective and a complex matter of personal judgement of management competence rather than independent measurement. For example, though the FDC bid contains a number of measurable commitments, there is no sense that these are tied to measurement of performance of the charity or the CEO, indeed a number of these measurable commitments have yet to have any official reports. --Fæ (talk) 12:23, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

an interesting and valid debate and we are working hard to establish clear metrics for what we do. Staff and trustees listen carefully to these discussions. One point of correction; I have been CEO for a little over two years not three and whatever my personal merits both outside consultants have commented on how rapidly and well WMUK developed during that period. So let's remember to celebrate our achievements. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 10:41, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Fortunately events have been reported publicly for the last 6 years, it does not require any further hard work to report them as they are already reported. As a Key Performance Indicator (rather than a simple metric) reporting the trend of quantity of external-facing events and their benefits as measurable outcomes for Wikimedia projects is one of the most basic I can imagine. This is a KPI that is cheap to report and effective for trustees to monitor operations, and does not need the clock to be reset to zero, so this means that this year's performance can easily be compared to 2013, 2012, 2011...

Jon, I made absolutely no comment on your "personal merits", re-framing my comment above in this way confuses a criticism of process with a person. Members should be free to highlight issues with the charity's performance or how the CEO's performance can be measured in a more meaningful and transparent way, without it being turned into a defensive argument of personalities. --Fæ (talk) 11:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

1st June is Global Sharing Day

File:I love sharing at republica 13.jpg

Discussion resulting from initial post at Water cooler#1st June is Global Sharing Day

This seems to be a day devoted to reciprocity of asset sharing (car shares, food sharing), rather than preserving the sum of human knowledge. Isn't getting into bed with these people the same as becoming affiliated with Freecycle? I can understand why piggybacking on the co-incidental title of the day might seem attractive from a PR perspective, but this feels oddly tangential to Wikimedia UK's mission. --Fæ (talk) 18:32, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more. Knowledge sharing is one of the most important types of sharing there is. If it wasn't then the Wikimedia projects and movement wouldn't have such importance and would have so many people involved. Making the case for free knowledge is one of the most useful things we can do. It can hardly be called tangential. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 18:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I did not say that making the case for free knowledge is tangential; I did not serve as a trustee, or help set this charity up in the first place without believing in making the case for free knowledge. Please note my sentence with regard to "getting into bed". I was going by the self description on Benita Matofska's website where it is also clear that Compare and Share is a limited company (not a charity) who no doubt would benefit from adding the Wikimedia brand name value to their portfolio. --Fæ (talk) 19:08, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The implication being that we shouldn't work with anyone that isn't a charity? This is a global initiative with global participation. It costs nothing for Wikimedia UK to be involved. Why shouldn't sharing knowledge be seen on a par with sharing food or other assets? We talk a lot about member numbers and volunteer numbers. This is the kind of initiative that can take our work to a wider audience that is already interested in the sharing of "assets" - an audience that is more likely to share our aims and values and therefore more likely to become participants in the future. If other people benefit from that - great. Let's make everyone happy. It's worth noting also that it's not that long ago Wikimedia UK was a limited company. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 09:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

(Just for reference, WMUK still is a Limited company Stevie, Limited by guarantee.) Philafrenzy (talk) 18:17, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

They appear to be company number 07494345. It's not clear whether they are for- or non-profit - if they are for-profit then that's definitely something to be wary of, particularly if working with them ends up getting media coverage. But tapping into their community and encouraging them to contribute to the Wikimedia projects would make a lot of sense. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:46, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

The strategy of the Compare and Share private company appears to be to create a viral marketing campaign verging on being a pyramid scheme ("we're asking each partner to bring a network / another partner on board"). They are pushing for partners (as they say on their website) who have a number 1 objective of "Promote yourself"; it is free to become a partner, you just send in your company logo, so this does not seem particularly meaningful. Anyone can create a "National Day" to support a marketing campaign, for example Marmite encouraged a National Marmite Day. Before launching Wikimedia UK events or partnering with an organization, Wikimedia UK should do basic background checks and be able to answer these questions and understand fully what the Wikimedia brand is supporting.

Lastly these are the types of questions (is this a charity? why would we partner with them?) that members should not only be free to ask, but encouraged to raise. At the moment I do not feel members have the least bit of encouragement to raise pertinent questions on this wiki, quite the opposite. --Fæ (talk) 10:51, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I note that all discussion has been moved from the Water cooler (without any attempt at consensus to do so), but not Stevie's announcement there promoting "Global Sharing Day". While there is a governance issue under active discussion, with unresolved directly relevant questions, please move the notice from the Water cooler to be located with the thread, or move this discussion back where it was. Positivity does not mean cherry picking parts of discussions. --Fæ (talk) 11:25, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a link between the two. This isn't about positivity, it's about splitting different types of discussion. Cheers Sjgknight (talk) 11:33, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

No this is cherry picking. Stevie has created a notice promoting "Global Sharing Day", the question raised is whether we should do so. Splitting the two just hides this relevant question. The stated new purpose of the Water cooler is "This is a place to let you know what is happening and to discuss our external projects and activities" - this does not include promoting events for other organizations. Stevie's notice does not fit that description as we have not committed to supporting such an event or joining Compare and Share's marketing programme by becoming a "partner". If the whole discussion thread is to stay on this page, then by the same logic, Stevie's notice should be in the Engine room not on the Water cooler.

Simon, I would like the board of trustees to be alerted to this governance issue, which now appears to be being diffused rather than managed. Wikimedia UK should not lend the Wikimedia brand name to a viral marketing campaign without doing basic background checks such as whether someone is making bags of money out of it somewhere. --Fæ (talk) 11:48, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

"Compareandshare.com is brought to you by Compare and Share Ltd., the leading provider of technology-based solutions for asset-sharing that enables consumers and companies to access and share the world’s under-used assets. Alongside compareandshare.com, we license, build and customise asset-sharing solutions for companies and organizations helping them maximise their unused assets by making it simple for them to connect surplus resources with need." Source: http://www.compareandshare.com/about-us/

My local Tesco also has surplus resources that meet my needs, at least they are open that I am going to have to pay. Philafrenzy (talk) 13:53, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Based on that description, if Wikimedia UK wants to support "resource sharing", then I suggest we do so independently and produce a Wikimedia sponsored website, forum and on-line database for the public to share resources in competition with Compare and Share Ltd. Frankly, none of it looks that technically challenging and it is something that Wikimedia UK could host on its own server. I would say an £100,000 grant would do it and at least *we* would be a charity transparently governing the entire scheme from end to end, with no future advertising and no selling of parallel commercial services piggy-backing on the created brand value. However this would mean a significant change to our charitable mission and scope as originally presented to the Charity Commission, that's up to the board of trustees if they want to fundamentally re-write this charity or stick to the mission of preserving all human knowledge, which already seems a pretty big mission. --Fæ (talk) 17:21, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Engine room

Contents

A Water Cooler for members only?

Change is required

Splitting the Watercooler

Email notifications - configuration request

CIPR publications

Question

Proposal for a chapter Request for Comment process

Training the Trainers February 2014 event (split from Water Cooler notification of Training event)

Archiving this page

OTRS email confidentiality disclaimer

Survey results

Getting us started

QRpedia technical and organizational issues (was QRpedia what next? on the Water Cooler)

QRpedia domain transfer update

Liability insurance for OTRS volunteers

December board meeting

The Engine room needs to look prettier

Format of the newsletter

Action of the Chair to censor comments

Key Performance Indicators for the Chief Executive

The Water cooler needs to look prettier

Being "pretty" versus ensuring access for all contributors

Declarations for paid editing and related advocacy

January seems to show a decline in the number of events

1st June is Global Sharing Day

Navigation menu