Water cooler

2009 2010 2011 2012 2013

Wikimania 2014 & Wikivoyage

I know that Wikimania 2014 isn't technically a WMUK project but this seemed a good place to bring it up: With the event happening in London, it would make sense for the London Wikivoyage pages to be improved for the benefit of all the visiting Wikimedians. We have a Wikimedia travel guide; it would be good to use it. While adding a listing to voy:en:London/City of London, home of the Barbican, I noticed that the page status of many London districts can be quite low. The City is at guide status but most are just at usable status and only voy:en:London/Hampstead is star status (the scale goes stub-->outline-->usable-->guide-->star). This is within the chapter's sphere of responsibility but I don't know if this is something the chapter could/would be involved with, or just UK Wikimedians doing bits (I'm going to continue editing but I don't really know enough about the city to cover everything). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 14:37, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Adam, thanks for your suggestion, which I think is a good one. You're correct that Wikimania itself isn't a Wikimedia UK project but it would make sense for us to try and encourage improvement of WikiVoyage content related to London - and in as many languages as we can, too. Do you have any suggestions on how to do this? If you;d like to deliver / promote a project around this then I'd be more than happy to lend my support and get involved in helping out on this - both as a staff member and as a volunteer :-) Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 14:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm wondering whether this would be a good way to introduce (secondary/high) school children to wiki editing. We have been discussing possible ways to involve school children over the coming year and this may indeed be a relatively useful and certainly interesting way of doing it. --Toni Sant (WMUK) (talk) 08:51, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

RE: "Do you have any suggestions" -- to be honest, no, not at the moment. At least, I'm not sure how best to do it. I should probably have waited to bring it up at the meet up in August, so I could discuss it a bit first. On the bright side, Wikivoyage is probably the easiest Wikimedia project on which to make micro-contributions. The majority of a standard guide article is made up of template-formatted bullet points, under standard verb-based headings (ie. "See", "Buy", "Eat", etc) which use templates of the same name (ie. {{buy}}, {{eat}}, etc). On top of which, a contribution could be just adding a good local restaurant. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 16:41, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Also, be careful about wanting to introduce secondary/high school students to Wikipedia editing. There have already been a lot of rumblings on English Wikipedia about the need for better child protection policies. WMUK may need to look into the logistics of that with DBS (formerly CRB) checking for volunteers and so on. DBS checking is apparently now free for volunteers. I'm happy to have a DBS check done, as I've been happy to disclose my identity documents to the WMF. —Tom Morris (talk) 10:51, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

It'd also be great if people could help improve London on OpenStreetMap. I do my part in making sure that certain drinking establishments are kept up-to-date, but there's a lot of other things in London that need improving! —Tom Morris (talk) 10:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Open Government Partnership annual summit call for proposals

Hello everyone. The Open Government Partnership is hosting its annual summit on 31 October and 1 November. This could be a good opportunity to build networks in this area and find ways that we can demonstrate the value of Wikimedia projects. We may be able to find ways to influence thinking around open knowledge and how this can fit in with public policy. They have issued a call for proposals which has a deadline of 1 September. I wonder if this is of interest to anybody and, if so, this is a good place to discuss some ideas. Many thanks. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:10, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

• Given the just-started discussions with City of Edinburgh Council (CEC) which — I hope — will lead to their webcasts of council meetings, plus Q&A sessions, ending up archived on MediaWiki servers, this is a point to ensure gets some discussion there. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 17:06, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Student societies 2013 campaign

Wikimedia UK is keen to support student societies towards a better understanding and improvement of Wikipedia and its sister projects. We are currently looking for a volunteer to help me develop a strategic plan we've drafted for reaching out to university student unions across the UK. This work relates to WMUK's developing efforts to support Student Societies focused on editing Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects; it essentially involves an intensive period of concentrated effort to reach out to potential new student societies. Details available here. --Toni Sant (WMUK) (talk) 16:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

'Illustrating Wikipedia brochure' - your thoughts?

Hi All, a new brochure about Wikimedia Commons has been produced. Designed to be a companion brochure to the Welcome to Wikipedia brochure, it covers what Commons is, how to upload files, how to use files, and the basics of free licenses - File:Illustrating Wikipedia brochure.pdf. We would like to have a version printed in the UK as well. What are your thoughts on the content? Do you think we already have a brochure that does the job better?

Do let Stevie know (stevie.bentonwikimedia.org.uk or comment here) - we may even manage to get it ready for Wiki Loves Monuments in September!

Thanks, Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 14:34, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Supporting the UK's first Wiki Loves Monuments competition

Hi all,

For those who haven't been following organizational progress of the WLM competition to date, we have a small group of dedicated volunteers and staff who are working hard to ensure that the UK's first contribution to the world's largest photographic competition goes without a hitch. We have a nice competition website to attract competitors (many of whom will not be Wiki savvy, and will be new contributors & editors). We are expecting this to be quite a big deal, and the staff at Wikimedia UK have been busy making arrangement for publicity as well as helping out with the lists. We hope to get press notices and image spreads in the Metro, which publishes in Bath, Birmingham, Brighton, Bristol, Cardiff, Derby, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, London, Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle and Sheffield, as well as in The Times (thanks Stevie). The high-profile nature of the competition has been strengthened by the agreement of Steve Cole ABIPP, Head of Photography at English Heritage, to join the national judging panel (jury) (thanks Richard N.)

The WLM volunteers will do everything they can to make sure the English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland lists are in a good state before the start of the national and international competitions - September 1st is just three weeks away now. We are all very aware that the deadline is looming, and that a quite a lot of work still remains to be done. Everyone is working as fast as they can and due to the rapidly approaching deadline it appears that unfortunately a few errors have slipped through. Really, we need more people to help out. There is a particular need for editors who are experienced with bots or scripts to pitch in now, not only to help fix some of the errors, but also to help put up the remainder of the listed building data using the standard WLM templates. If you can help in any way, please make yourself known to the WLM team, either via my talk page, or by adding your name to the helpers' page on Commons. If you can actively help now, you should also, please, sign up to the Wiki Loves Monuments UK mailing list, where you can obtain detailed information. You can see the current status of the data uploads by going to the Progress lists for Wikipedians; you can see there, for example, that we still need someone to deal with the uploading of almost all of the Scottish data. We can provide structured lists of data for those who can help with this.

If you can't help with bot work, but are able to contribute by tidying up or correcting the WP lists for your area, that would still be very much appreciated. You can get to the lists by going via one of the following links:

• Listed buildings in Scotland
• Listed buildings in Wales
• Listed buildings in England
• Listed buildings in Northern Ireland

The best place to report systematic list errors, to ensure that the WLM volunteers see them, is not on this thread, but rather at the main WLM-UK help desk.

Given the fact that the competition will be starting in just three weeks time (whether the UK team is ready or not!), I would ask that editors do not make any radical changes to the en Wikipedia lists at this stage which could inadvertently destroy the competition. In particular, please do not make mass reverts, unless you are able to put everything back correctly, and please do not remove or change the WLM template structure. This is essential for the automated upload tool to work properly, and also for the WLM international team to ensure that the data gets correctly harvested and copied into the worldwide Wiki Monuments Database.

After the competition has finished, at the end of September, would be a good time for the community to discuss - if desired - any possible template improvements to the way in which the UK data is standardized and displayed.

Thanks for bearing with us and for helping out if you can. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 12:12, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

And thanks to you Michael and everyone working on this - absolutely brilliant and I hope we can lead the way in supporting the newbies (especially) to remain active after the main event has happened. Ideas anyone? Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 08:26, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Wikimania Wikidata and a talk

Hello everyone! :) Today DanielK(WMDE) told me that WMUK (or someone from WMUK that was at Wikimania) was looking for someone to 'give a wikidata introduction' talk of some sort! If anyone knows who was talking to the Wikidata team in Hongkong about this (maybe you are that person) then give me a shout as I may be able to help :) Addshore (talk) 20:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Awesome! Katie is probably the person to contact for details. (I did one of these a few months back and it went well - will happily pass on my notes - but don't have much free time at the moment to do others.) Andrew Gray (talk) 10:49, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I got a poke from Mrjohncummings here. :) Addshore (talk) 10:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Might have been me, I've had a few requests, I put a note on your talk page --Mrjohncummings (talk) 10:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Last chance for comments on Train the Trainers

http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Train_the_Trainers_consultation

All comments welcomed especially on the recommendations.

Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 08:24, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Virtual Learning Environment workshop day

Hello everyone, as you probably know Wikimedia UK has been developing a Virtual Learning Environment (VLE) to teach people about Wikipedia. Progress is going well and we'd like to invite you to a workshop day on Saturday 9 November. The workshop will highlight the features of the VLE, look at how we can make good use of the tool, seek community involvement in the content, maintenance and localisation of the tool. Lunch will be provided on the day and I'm hoping very much to see you there. Please do feel free to drop me a line with any questions. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

List of interested people:

• Stevie Benton (WMUK)
• Dhaval S Vyas
• John Byrne
• John Cummings
• Harry Mitchell
• MartinPoulter (talk)

Forthcoming page creation

Just a notice that I'm going to be making a lot of smallish sub-pages with custom CSS, in a pattern that may seem like a wikivous breakdown when looked at in Recent Changes, but the intention is to create a flowchart tool showing external partners how best to work with Wikimedia. I will do this for the Jisc collaboration project, but hopefully the way I implement it will mean there can be multiple entry points. MartinPoulter Jisc (talk) 16:29, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Sounds very posh! Richard Symonds (talk) 10:45, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Women's Engineering Society conference 4 October 2013 - would you like to attend to talk about Wikipedia?

Hi All, WES has invited Wikimedia UK to join their one day conference [1] (annual opportunity for women in engineering and related technologies to get together to discuss energy technologies). They are running a parallel session that's much broader in scope - and we got a slot to talk about Wikipedia, gender gap and how Editathons could increase the presence of women, and especially women in engineering, on Wikipedia. I will be attending, and if a volunteer would like to join me to co present I should be able to secure a free entry. daria.cybulskawikimedia.org.uk. Many thanks! Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 14:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

EduWiki 2013 Call for Proposals - extended deadline

Please note that the call for proposals deadline for the EduWiki Conference 2013 has been extended to Friday 30 August at noon. --Toni Sant (WMUK) (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Open access hackathon

Hi, not sure if this is right place to leave a message, but there's an event coming up that might be of interest to any Wikimedians who are interested in open access to research. The Open Access Button team (Joe and David) are holding a hackathon in London on the weekend of 7-8 September, venue to be decided very shortly. They are very interested in working with Wikimedia on their ideas, and on the Wikimania 2014 team we're planning on getting them involved in the conference next year. They're new to Wikimedia so are very keen to meet people and get involved. You can contact them on twitter if you're interested. Thanks. Lawsonstu (talk) 16:32, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Further information and sign-up details are now available on their blog. "Millions of people a day are denied access to the research they both need and paid for because of paywalls. It doesn’t have to be like this, but we need your help. We’re two students from the UK making a tool to help change the system – it’s called the Open Access Button..." Lawsonstu (talk) 07:30, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

QRpedia update

Six months have gone by since the announcement by Chris Keating of the donation, and two months since he said they had a solution that would work. As of today, whois.com shows ownership of the QRpedia related domains as:

• qrpedia.org – Terrence Eden
• qrwp.org – Bamkin Family
• qrpedia.org.uk – Michael Peel
• qrpedia.net - Michael Peel
• qrpedia.co.uk – Bamkin Family

(Mike Peel has stated the ownership of his two domains has been transferred to WMUK (and WMUK reimbursed him for the purchase), and that he has lodged a bug report to have the records corrected)

Could an update on the transfer of the other domains and the future of QRpedia please be given? The last board minutes note that there were “four points that Roger needs to agree”. Has he agreed? If so, when will the transfer happen? If not, what are the steps from here? TheOverflow (talk) 20:16, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

+1. Four days have passed since this question was asked. A holding response from a trustee or employee as acknowledgement would have been nice even if an answer is being debated in-camera. Considering the public statement on 9th February 2013 with the commitment that a "fuller statement will follow" and assurances after similar questions were repeated on 7th June 2013, it seems long overdue for the charity to share information with members. Referring to my diary, which included my recommendations when I was the Chairman to finalize the deal in 2012, more than two years have passed in negotiation and seeing several months of only issuing upbeat public statements eventually becomes a risk, rather than the board sticking to the value of being open and honest with members about issues. --Fæ (talk) 12:02, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for asking about this. I've passed the question on to people who have been directly involved in the work. Apologies for the delay - I only returned from annual leave today and have been catching up on many things. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 15:58, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

It has been 8 days since TheOverflow raised their question. The charity has a total of 15 staff and board members available, and in the light of several reports and press releases in this time, none appears willing or has permission to give a simple or prompt update. TheOverflow has gone ahead and updated the English Wikipedia article on QRpedia with the information they have. --Fæ (talk) 08:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Two weeks and, disappointingly, still no answers despite, as Fæ notes the availability of staff and board members. I do note from whois.com, however, that the qrpedia.net, previously registered to Michael Peel is now registered to Wiki UK Limited, and qrpedia.org.uk while still registered to Michael Peel now has wikimedia UK's address as registrant's address, so there seems to have been some work behind the scenes. TheOverflow (talk) 00:48, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the slow reply. We have what is from our point of view a final agreement which will transfer the domains and IP, which was completed shortly after the last Board meeting and it is awaiting Roger's signature. I understand he has, not unreasonably, been taking his own legal advice before signing and completing the transfer. Regards, The Land (talk) 20:16, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for that response, and the apology for the slow reply. The final agreement from WMUK's view was completed shortly after the last board meeting. That's around two months ago - that's a lot of time to seek and consider legal advice. When do you expect it to be finalised? TheOverflow (talk) 01:03, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Given that agreement has not been reached, the claim that it has been reached should be removed from Governance_Review/Implementation. TheOverflow (talk) 01:29, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments UK - call for volunteers to pre-screen entries in September

I'm unsure how many uploads we can expect to get as part of WLM in the UK over the next month, but the signs are that it could be in the tens of thousands - far too many for us to give straight to our three-person jury to review.

That means that we will need one or more levels of pre-screening, to knock out the images that are clearly not good enough to pass on to the next stage. We need to plan to do this pre-screening on a daily basis, as the competition proceeds, as there may well not be enough time to do the whole lot in October.

I'm looking for volunteers who could help online with this, either throughout September or at least for a day or two. No experience is needed, other than a reliable ability to distinguish a good photo from a poor one. Although the entries will be from the UK, anyone from anywhere can make a difference.

If you can help, please let me know on my talk page, or add your name to the pre-screening team.

Many thanks, --MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:39, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Call for Editathon and/or Hackathon ideas at EduWiki 2013

In an effort to provide a wider range of activities over the weekend of the EduWiki Conference 2013, we are now calling for ideas for possible editathons and/or hackathons to take place during or immediately after the conference. We are particularly looking forward to hearing from people who already have the relevant links needed for such events. Wikimedia UK would be able to cover expenses, as appropriate. The deadline for proposals is Friday 6 September 2013 at noon BST. --Toni Sant (WMUK) (talk) 12:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Getting the word out about the Wiki Loves Monuments competition

As you probably know, the Wiki Loves Monuments competition starts this Sunday, 1st September, and we would like to get as many entries from the UK as we possibly can.

Please do your bit by letting friends and family around the country know, and please also spread the word to local societies that you may be involved with. Of particular interest are local historical groups, civic groups and photographic clubs.

Please feel free to use the text below as an email template. It's designed to be sent to a society, but should be easy to change if you are emailing friends.

--MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:37, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi

I am emailing in case your members might be interested in contributing photographs of their local listed buildings to the international Wiki Loves Monuments competition, which runs throughout the month of September. I am a volunteer with the charity Wikimedia UK.

Entries can be images taken specially for the competition, or can be pre-existing images, and will be available for others to use on Wikipedia.

I would be most grateful if you would be good enough to bring this competition to the attention of your members. The link is www.wikilovesmonuments.org.uk

If you or any of your members have queries, please feel free to email me directly.

Thanks for your help, and regards,

. . .

____________________________________________________________________________________

World's largest photography contest comes to the UK - record your local listed buildings

September is the month when summer begins drawing to a close, the football season is in full swing and the leaves begin to change colour. You may not be aware that it's also the month of the world's largest photography competition.

Wiki Loves Monuments is a global competition, open to everyone. In the UK the aim is to gather together freely-licensed high quality photographs of the UK's listed buildings for use on Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia. And it's open to everybody.

Wikipedia has a global audience of over 500 million people every month, making Wiki Loves Monuments a chance for entrants to have their photography potentially reach a very large audience. For example, the article about Hadrian's Wall receives around 700,000 visitors a year while the article about London is viewed around 4.5 million times a year.

Aside from being great fun, Wiki Loves Monuments is a way of capturing a snapshot of our nation’s cultural heritage for future generations, documenting our country’s most important historic buildings. Over time, the collections gathered throughout the competition will become an incredibly useful historical resource.

Entries can be images taken specially for the competition, or can be pre-existing images.

Michael Maggs, volunteer member of the Wiki Loves Monuments UK steering committee and a Wikimedia UK Trustee, said: “The contest is a great way not only to contribute to Wikipedia but also to record and share with the world images of your local historic environment. You don't need to be a professional-quality photographer to upload photos and help make a difference.”

Jon Davies, Chief Executive of Wikimedia UK, the charity that is helping to support the initiative, said: "Taking part in Wiki Loves Monuments for the first time is very exciting. We’re hoping that the UK will provide a leading contribution to the contest and are calling on photographers, amateur and professional alike, to help to make this happen. We'd love for the global winner to come from the UK."

To learn more about the competition and to get involved, visit www.wikilovesmonuments.org.uk

____________________________________________________________________________________

Proposed deletion: Wikimedia_projects

I'm proposing deletion of this page. It should be (and is) part of all our communications that Wikimedia is about more than just Wikipedia. But that page doesn't achieve this. Because it's not easily findable, it's easy for it to be neglected and go out of date (as has happened). It doesn't have information that isn't duplicated in lots of other places. MartinPoulter (talk) 14:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

One source of confusion I have come across a few times for people dealing with the chapter is the distinction between "Wikimedia projects" and projects organised by Wikimedia UK. Something that explains this could be useful and I'm not sure deleting this page improves anything. 94.185.212.146 18:46, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

It's out of date information, it's duplicate information (which Google penalises) and for good reasons it's not likely to be maintained. It will be misleading to a newcomer who stumbles across it. So its continued existence is negative rather than positive or neutral. That's the deletion rationale. Fair point about the ambiguity of "projects". MartinPoulter Jisc (talk) 09:40, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Only one page link to Wikimedia projects (apart from the water cooler), and I don't think removing that link from the page would be an issue. I'll delete that page tomorrow if no one objects. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 11:32, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: Activities/Geographical diversity

I'm very keen that we monitor the geographic diversity of our activity. However, this page doesn't seem to be the way to do it. It was a good idea at the time to have an "audit" of our activities around the UK, but it hasn't become embedded in the way we work. It seems to me that the same function could be performed by intelligent use of the category system (Events in North-East England, Events in Northern Ireland...) and that this is more likely to be embedded. Someone creating a page for an event will look at an existing page for a similar event and copy the features it has. So we just make sure past events and geography-specific activities have a geographical category, that should send things on their way (or am I being too optimistic?) In the Economics Network (also mandated to serve the whole UK) we used to categorise our activity according to which of ten broad regions it happened in. MartinPoulter (talk) 14:41, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

I think that page has been long forgotten about. It can be deleted or tagged historical as far as I'm concerned. Harry Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:51, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

There are no incoming links to the page apart from this page and two user talk pages. If there are no objections by tomorrow I'll delete it. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Richard. At some point I'll start adding geographical categories to stuff so we're still tracking that aspect of diversity. MartinPoulter (talk) 12:31, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Style for the blog

I strongly recommend more use of the --more-- tag on the blog, so that the blog front page (and WMUK front page) gives only short teasers and people have to click through

• Not all our readers are interested in any given blog post, but given the diversity of the topics, almost all of them should be interested in at least one recent post. Given how surprisingly reluctant users are to scroll, it's better to make it easier for them to get an overview (headlines and teasers) for a lot of posts.
• If people have to click through to read a post, then the viewing stats for individual posts give a useful metrics for the interest they attract. If people can read all recent posts from the front page, then that potential for evaluation is lost.

I also recommend just having no more than short teasers of blog posts on the wiki main page (sometimes this happens; sometimes there are longer extracts or the full text of the post). I know this complicates things for the Welsh translation of the blog: maybe a separate page can be created for Welsh summaries of the blog posts?

• Google apparently penalises duplicate content.
• In my webmaster job, I've conducted usability tests as well as benefiting from consultants who test usability for sites like the Guardian and BBC. It's amazing how reluctant desktop users are to scroll (just think about how few of the general public are aware of Wikipedia's sister sites, even though you can see them all by scrolling down Wikipedia's home page) and hence a good front page design gets all important items in a desktop user's first screenful. This was really rammed home to me by the consultants. Our text in the "About Wikimedia UK" section is crucial for anyone visiting for the first time, and so arguably are the contact details underneath.

Also, can the left hand navigation on the blog be updated to match that of the main site? They've got very out of sync. Stevie, I recognise you're working hard on a lot of different things at the moment, but maybe this is something a developer can implement? Cheers, MartinPoulter (talk) 15:53, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Martin, thanks very much for these useful and thoughtful comments. I've made a note to spend a bit of time looking at this and other blog things later this week. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 15:23, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Very helpful. We really need to think hard about what we look like to the outside world. Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 09:52, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Photography training workshops for volunteers

Hello everyone. I've been looking in to the possibility of offering some photography training for Wikimedia volunteers. This is definitely something we can do in the form of one-day workshops for small groups. This would be delivered at no cost to the volunteers so at this point I'd like to assess how much appetite there is for this kind of workshop and get a sense of how many people would like to take part. This would be a really worthwhile activity and help to empower volunteers and give them additional skills that can be used not only when contributing to Wikimedia projects, but elsewhere, too. If you are interested, please do let me know, either by replying here or sending me an email. Thank you. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 10:55, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Twitter user and Wiki Loves Monuments participant @secretlondon has expressed an interest so far. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 12:29, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

RodW is interested in a session in the Bath / Bristol area. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:02, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd also be interested in the Bath / Bristol area. Rwendland (talk) 13:20, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd love to go to a workshop like this. I'm not averse to travelling, so Bristol would be fine (Bath's a bit of a pain but not impossible). Harry Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:39, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd be interested in such a workshop in London. Edwardx (talk) 16:34, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

• I found the photography workshop in Edinburgh enormously useful. But, my experience from that suggests such should be preferentially offered to established Wikimedians. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 00:38, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
• I would be interested if held in London (or a short train ride away). A segment to discuss some of the issues relating to uploading user photographs that can cause snags could be useful; I would be happy to share some examples from my 150,000 image uploads. Common issues include erroneous or non-standard EXIF data (leading to bots reaching wrong conclusions), the impossibility of finding non-identical duplicates, work for hire, model consent, video processing, and unexpected copyright issues from photographs taken in other countries (assuming the group has a good awareness of UK copyright) such as photographs where there is no freedom of panorama or photographs of manufactured products. If there was interest then a discussion of tools for mass processing could also be productive for those with larger collections. --Fæ (talk) 09:35, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for your interest so far. I'm going to leave this open for a short while longer but it looks like we may have enough people interested to have a cohort in London and one in Bristol. I'm particularly keen to offer this to any other volunteers who attend Wikimedia UK events (especially training) on a fairly regular basis. Fae, your suggestions here are useful and I think that there would be a chance to raise some of these issues with a trainer, particularly the batch processing. I know that Adobe Photoshop can handle this, I suspect that GIMP can too. However, the main (aha) focus of the event would be how to take technically good photos rather than spending too much time looking at copyright, freedom of panorama and so on. I think that would be an altogether different session and might be something that we could do separately. There may well be someone who is an expert on copyright who would deliver perhaps a half day seminar / workshop for those interested in that area. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:11, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure Fae and I between probably know as much about UK copyright as a hired instructor would! ;) I'd love to talk about mass-uploading and some of the other issues Fae raises, but as you say, Stevie, they might best saved for another event. Harry Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:29, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I could help in London and maybe in Bristol too. Would you like a talk on UK copyright for photographers? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:48, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

I have taken a couple of thousand photos as a volunteer and would be interested in a photography course, preferably in London. A copyright session might also be interesting, presumably this would also cover issues for uploaders? Jonathan Cardy (WMUK) (talk) 12:31, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK contact database migration

This weekend wikimedia uk will be migrating its contact records management database, Civi CRM from its current platform hosting (Joomla) to a new platform (Drupal) and the most up to date version of the software available.

This will mean at some points of the weekend users will notice changes on the donate.wikimedia.org.uk domain as the new database and web forms are migrated and re-established.

If you experience an issue please log it on the WMUK instance of Bugzilla - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org.uk/ - you can register an account with your email of choice and this will be activated for you,

User testing of the migrated version will commence on Monday and will hopefully establish quickly any remaining issues, allowing the chapter to continue to use the database as before, with a view to moving on to adding new features that will allow for a better experience all round (including better sign-up forms for new and renewing members, events forms and so on)

Please do feel free to reply here or email me directly (katherine.bavagewikimedia.org.uk) with questions.

Thanks all! Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 11:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Did this go OK? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:49, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

It went pretty awesome - thanks to User:Kelson! We're ironing out two bugs at the moment - one around changing payment statuses, the other about installing the WYSIWYG API - you can view these in Bugzilla if you like. When I'm happy it's essentially as useable as it would have been pre-migration (hopefully before Friday) I'll email all users a link to the log on. THEN we get to the good stuff like redesigning online forms so they are, well, better, and hopefully using the site to collect sign ups for events and so forth. Thanks for asking :-) Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 11:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Alastair McCapra's declaration of interest

I am grateful to see Alastair update his declaration at Declarations_of_Interest#Alastair_McCapra in advance of taking up the role of CEO of CIPR.

CIPR and WMUK have had a productive relationship in the past, however this appears to introduce a direct conflict on interest on the WMUK board. During my time as a trustee and the Chair, the viewpoints of board members were varied, complex and at times heated, with regard to failures of governance within the PR industry, which resulted in a pattern of PR professionals being caught out when covertly attempting to manipulate the content of Wikimedia projects.

In my personal view, though I respect CIPR and the impressive lead it has taken to guide the industry, especially around individual governance, the mission of CIPR is not one that sits well alongside the WMUK mission and values. We now have the situation where a trustee on the board is a paid advocate on behalf of the public relations profession. Having the CEO of CIPR advise the WMUK board is incredibly useful and valuable, having the same person as the WMUK Secretary and a voting trustee, introduces a realistic reputational risk for WMUK to be open to future allegations of using resources and putting political pressure on Wikimedia projects to the benefit of the PR industry.

I would appreciate Alastair's thoughts on how he intends to manage his conflict of interest and whether he believes it is best for the charity to continue as the Secretary and a Trustee on the board in these circumstances.

Should Alastair remain active as a trustee, I call upon the board of trustees to openly publish an independent review of this conflict of interest in advance of Alastair taking up his new role in November. Considering Alastair's appointment was made public more than a fortnight ago and he would have advised his fellow trustees in advance of his appointment, though to my knowledge not before his election at the AGM, I am sure this has been subject to an in-camera review which might now be useful to publish for the benefit of the members of the charity. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 16:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

These two roles are fundamentally incompatible in my view given the respective functions of the two organisations and I do not believe that Alastair can carry out the duties of both jobs without an actual or perceived conflict of interest. Alastair should either resign here or not take up the other job.If he does not he will inevitably be accused, unfairly no doubt, of being a trojan horse for the PR industry. I have met Alastair and he seems a completely ethical individual, however, the very idea that this could be managed or that the two roles could ever be compatible shows an astonishing lack of judgement by Alastair and the current board IMHO. I am sorry to be so blunt. The next time an article on Wikipedia does not go the way the PR industry would like, will he not inevitably be asked to exert pressure via Wikimedia to have it changed? I thought that Wikimedia UK were working to avoid the own-goals that have so damaged us in the past? It would be interesting to know what influence, if any, Alastair's current position here had on his selection for the CIPR job and whether he knew of this potential position at CIPR at the time he stood for the Wikimedia board. Perhaps Alastair could clarify these matters. Philafrenzy (talk) 17:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fae. Can't say I agree with you here. On the subject of conflicts of interest - Wikimedia UK's work does not really involve the PR industry. We do a great deal of work with the education and culture sectors, but the only project involving the public relations profession that I can recall was the collaboration between volunteers who were Wikimedia UK members and CIPR members to produce what was effectively a guide on how people in PR could understand and respect Wikipedia policies. That was a very worthwhile initiative, but nothing further is planned. We have always been very clear that Wikimedia UK has no control over the content of the Wikimedia projects and even less over the policies governing such content. So I do not see any conflict of interest. Naturally we're all aware of one another's professional backgrounds, which are disclosed on our register of interests, and I am confident that should any potential conflict arise from any quarter it will be identified early and dealt with properly.

Regarding reputational risk, I also can't agree. It's important to note that the CIPR is not a PR firm, it is a professional body which helps ensure that people who work in PR do so competently and ethically. The CIPR has a Code of Conduct for its members which requires them to act with integrity and transparency, principles all Wikimedians will be familiar with. Regards, The Land (talk) 18:03, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Let's not be naive, the CIPR is not a regulator. It is paid for by the PR industry, its members are PR professionals, its job is to promote the interests of the PR industry and it's code of conduct is written by the PR industry. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:14, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

(ec) "Wikimedia UK's work does not really involve the PR industry". I think the "really" tells the story here. Some of what Wikimedia UK does does involve PR firms; and by its very nature that small sliver of its activities are also among the most media-friendly. It will look like a COI to the press. It will look like a COI *problem* to the press. It is sad, really, because the truth of the matter rarely gets a look in. We are forced to (and must) discuss issues like this in terms of appearances and not realities. Jarry1250 (talk) 18:23, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, let's not be naive about anything, least of all COI on the Board. But we might try to state a point clearly in terms of the Board's function. Is it to influence Wikipedia content? No. Is it to influence creators and potential creators of Wikipedia content? Certainly. Wikipedia's "interface" with PR professionals is not in a particularly good state, compared to the interface with the "cultural sector", where some good things have been happening, and the educational sector, where some good things might be happening. The suspicion with which it is treated is understandable. The upside of closer contact is fairly easy to explain: if PR pros who muck around on Wikipedia are shown that they are not only behaving unprofessionally, but against their clients' best interests, then they will realise why they should take greater care to respect the terms of use of the site. Not rocket science. The downside is what is generating comment here. Does the Board influence Wikipedia policy? Hardly. Seems to be a presentational matter to me in fact. Now I disclaim expertise in presentational matters. But it seems a shame that this line is being taken: it is not about nuances, it speaks to what the Board does and doesn't have in its remit. Charles Matthews (talk) 18:53, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Charles, the board makes direct choices as to how to spend £750,000 of Wikimedia Foundation funds. This is a great deal of influence to give out jobs and grants and choose what outcomes are required. These outcomes include generating content on Wikimedia projects (such as through Wikimedians in Residence) and co-funding initiatives with other bodies that generate a lot of press interest and media coverage. To say that the board of trustees has no influence over Wikimedia policies is to disregard their influence in controlling who gets funded, for example, to present at events or take part in workshops that create Wikipedia policy, and be the visible face of Wikimedia in the UK and elsewhere. --Fæ (talk) 20:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

So the Board has patronage. I didn't use the expression "Wikimedia policies", which is ambiguous because "Wikimedia" is ambiguous. You make a reasonable point about events, though my impression is that the staff now do a high proportion of the event organisation.. Workshops that create Wikipedia policy? I believe the community does that. Being the "visible face"? I've gone on the BBC to bat for Wikipedia, as have a few others. There is some patronage in sending reps to chapters meetings or funding Wikimania scholarships. Are people's concerns really at this granularity? Of course if you want to make the case that anyone from the PR sector is an entryist and should be treated as such, it is a one-liner. Charles Matthews (talk) 20:34, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Chris, please read my statement again. I have asked for a response from Alastair and a follow-up with an independent report. As the current Chairman of the charity, I would expect you to take a lead to ensure these basics are done, in alignment with policies that we established to cover these situations. You appear to be disagreeing with what you imagine I am asking for, rather than what has actually been written. I see nothing for you to disagree with in a basic request for openness with the members of the charity and for the charity to be conducting itself with the best possible governance processes. If you are disagreeing with an independent review or are disagreeing with Alastair making a response, then I would appreciate a better explanation of why you, as the Chair, believe these are bad things.

By the way, I suggest members carefully review CIPR's mission statement, it unambiguously states it exists as an "advocate and voice of the public relations profession", it is not just about ethics. I doubt the public would have any other expectation than the CEO of the organization to also be an advocate for the PR sector and present it in the best possible light at every opportunity. --Fæ (talk) 19:29, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, it has been known for the Board to be used as a soapbox. For example to be an advocate for free software, and present it in the best possible light at every opportunity. Certainly we should not be naive about this kind of thing, when it runs counter to the purposes of the charity. Might be rather easier to do in the case of someone with a clearcut day job. Charles Matthews (talk) 20:34, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Dear all - thanks for the comments. Having spoken to Alastair, he's keen to respond to the points that have been raised, and expects to be able to do so by the weekend. Philafrenzy referred to the lessons of the last year - one of the main ones is that the trust of the membership and the Wikimedia community is vital - and we'll respond to this debate accordingly. The Land (talk) 20:48, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi - Sorry it has taken me a bit of time to reply to the points made above. First I’d like to say I understand why there is concern about conflict of interests on the Board. Anything which looks like it might corrupt the integrity of the encyclopedia is a potential threat, and WMUK has suffered badly in recent years from conflicts of interest which have cost it a lot and which nobody wants to repeat. Second I want to acknowledge the particular concerns people have about some members of the PR industry.

I am not a PR professional and had no previous connection with the PR business before applying for a job as CEO of CIPR. Coincidentally this was around the same time I stood for election as a WMUK trustee. I had applied for the job at CIPR before the WMUK AGM, and had my first interview a couple of weeks after I was elected to the Board. I was aware before I stood for election of many of the problems which WMUK has had to deal with recently, but wasn’t aware of the problems that had arisen as a result of Wikipedia editors defending the integrity of the encyclopedia from people who perhaps did not understand what the purpose of Wikipedia is. As a prospective employee I had to declare my various interests, including my recent WMUK election, to CIPR before I accepted the job, and I did so. I only learned of the issues which are causing concern here when I was made aware of them by CIPR after I had accepted the job.

I am very clear about what my role as a trustee is. It is to advance the charitable objects of WMUK in the public interest. Those are to promote and support the widest possible public access to, use of and contribution to open content of an encyclopaedic or educational nature. I am not there to advocate the cause of the PR profession, or to secure some kind of rule-bending on behalf of PRs working for their clients. Every trustee on the Board has a daytime job to which they give their full professional commitment, and none of us acts as an advocate for that industry or interest on the WMUK Board.

The reasons I stood for election to the WMUK Board are simple. Firstly, I believe in the project of building free, open knowledge all round the world, and in particular, in the immense benefit to humanity of a universal encyclopedia. Secondly, I am an experienced trustee and manager of small charities. I have dealt with dire financial crises, major overhauls of governance, and most of the other problems that beset charities at one time or another. I believed, as I still do, that my experience and skills can make a useful contribution to WMUK and that I can help it specifically to get itself out of the difficulties it got itself into in the last couple of years over governance. I currently serve on the Audit and Risk Committee where I am helping establish reliable financial controls, and as Secretary I am working to clear the backlog of unpublished minutes of Board meetings, or parts of meetings, which stretches back to 2009. I have also met with representatives of WMF and talked to them about the changes we are bringing about in the UK chapter, with a view to their agreeing, in due course, to allow us to take part in future fundraisers.

The question has been asked as to how I think I will manage my conflict of interest. I think I would genuinely have a conflict of interest if I had any desire or inclination to argue, in the WMUK Board, for some special treatment of PR professionals or for some bending or relaxing of Wikipedia editing rules. However, I don’t have any desire or intention to do this, and it is not part of my new job to speak up for bad editing or to defend the practices of PR professionals who don't follow WM rules.

As it happens, well before I had any contact with either Wikipedia or CIPR, the two bodies had collaborated to produce guidelines for best practice on the part of PR professionals on Wikipedia, and these are published on the WMUK site at https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Draft_best_practice_guidelines_for_PR . They represent the official CIPR position. Despite this, I think it is possible, in my new role, that I may be approached by some CIPR members who are unaware of these guidelines, asking me to ‘do something’ about ‘their’ article. If I am, I will refer them to this page. If there appears to be a widespread and persistent problem with CIPR members reading or abiding by those guidelines, then I will propose some training sessions to help them get their heads round it. In the extremely unlikely event that one of my employers becomes threatening in their demands that I conspire to subvert the encyclopedia, I will bring a professional conduct complaint against them. However, in considering what pressures I may come under in my new role, I take comfort in the fact that the incoming CIPR President, Stephen Waddington, authored a chapter on Wikipedia in a recently published handbook for PR Professionals, in which he restates what is set out in the guidelines above.

If some community members are inclined to assume bad faith on my part, or just some ethical fuzziness, such suspicions are perhaps natural as I am new, you don’t know me, and my new job stirs up understandable anxieties. However if this is how you feel I hope you will at least have enough faith in the integrity of other Board members to believe that they would absolutely not tolerate any inappropriate behaviour on my part, and if they thought I was trying to open the encyclopedia to manipulation I would be removed from the Board pretty quickly.

Aside from whether I might be tempted to try and undermine the cause I stood for election to uphold, the question has been raised about the reputational risk of my continuing to serve as a trustee. As I say I understand the reasons why some community members may have anxieties about my roles, but outside of this community I’d be very surprised if anyone was much interested. The conflicts between PRs and editors is pretty big news in the Wikipedia community and fairly big in the PR profession, but not of much interest outside of that.

The question has also been raised about the press and what they might make of my roles. If you have a look at what negative stories tend to run in the press about Wikipedia, it is usually about hoaxes, inaccuracies, trustees being paid to work on projects, and pornography. Would the press really get excited about my job? It doesn't seem likely to me.

Perhaps I am just not being sufficiently imaginative in my thinking about these issues and others can foresee scenarios that it would be potentially much more difficult for me to handle. If so, by all means raise them here as I need to think about these issues and my fellow Board members need to be mindful of them too. What kind of difficult position do you think I might find myself in?

Fae has suggested that there should be an independent review of this matter and in fact we are about to undertake an independent governance review in any case to see how the charity is responding to past criticisms and dealing with its problems. I think it would make sense for the consultants to give us their view on this matter.

For now, my commitment to working for WMUK is undimmed, I wish to continue to serve on the Board and don’t feel, on the basis of what has been said above, that there is a strong case for my not doing so.

Thanks

Mccapra (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

In order to have the fullest discussion possible I have posted this matter on Jimbo's talk page, one of our unofficial noticeboards. Here is the link and comments so far. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

From the beginning, we've had trustees who have day jobs, in which capacity they are paid to work for different causes. We've had trustees who are communications professionals. We've had trustees who have changed day jobs while in post. From the above complaints I still don't see why this case is different. The speculation that "The next time an article on Wikipedia does not go the way the PR industry would like, will he not inevitably be asked to exert pressure via Wikimedia to have it changed?" misunderstands the relation between the chapter and Wikipedia (as though the chapter can "have it changed"!) Did having an employee of Manchester University on the board mean that Wikipedia policies might be changed, or funds allocated, to the benefit of Manchester University? I also disagree with Jarry that we must discuss appearances rather than reality. Are there people really wishing for Wikimedia politics to become like Westminster politics? Given the amount of experience of charity governance now on the Board, and the scrutiny the organisation is voluntarily under, the idea that Alastair is going to "trojan horse" something against Wikimedia's interest, and that the Board are going to allow him, seems more than far-fetched. If we're keen to avoid own goals, then let's avoid undermining a dedicated and capable volunteer. MartinPoulter (talk) 10:07, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

This case is different and it should be obvious why. We need to stop walking into these bear traps (I won't name them all) and then having to spend a year commissioning governance reviews to sort them out. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:28, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

As the employee of the University of Manchester that Martin refers to, I'd note that I had a very clear declaration of interest and statement of how that interest would be managed - "Mike is an employee of the University of Manchester. Some of our activities take place at this University, and he will abstain on all decisions relating to the University of Manchester." Indeed, during the July 2013 board meeting there was a decision relating to the UoM (funding a WiR there), and I duly abstained from it. I would encourage Alastair to do something similar - rather than just stating the CoI, clearly set out the terms for how it will be managed to avoid it being an issue. Although in this case the management will be more complex as it would extend not just to the CIPR, but also the organisations it represents, I think this could still be a managable CoI providing that there is a clear line set in place well before he takes up the position. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:16, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

How can I put this in simple terms? The Vegetarian Association and the National Beef Association may wish to understand each other better, but they can never fundamentally be in sympathy and you can never imagine the head of the National Beef Association being a senior figure in the Vegetarian Association can you? Philafrenzy (talk) 11:10, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

The comments above are all helpful in terms of setting out what I think the issue is here – particularly the Vegetarian/National Beef Association one. If I was a trustee of the Vegetarian Association but taking a paid job with the League for the Introduction of meat-based products into vegetarian recipes, I would clearly have a total conflict of interest. Supposing however I took a paid job with a non-Vegetarian association which had a published policy directing its members to respect and abide by the nutritional rules of the Vegetarian Association when dealing with it? That’s actually the situation I’m in. My future employer is on of the few organisations in the country which has explicitly directed its members to follow Wikipedia rules. If CIPR members don’t follow the rules they are not just damaging the encyclopedia, they are failing to abide by the guidance given to them by their professional body. That does not leave much room for conflict. The reference to Mike Peel’s employment is also illustrative of what the term ‘conflict of interest’ actually means (as in, it doesn’t mean ‘something I don’t much like the sound of’). While Mike was on the WMUK Board there was a possibility that the chapter could discuss funding a project at Manchester or somehow involving them, which would potentially put Mike in the position of taking part in a discussion as a funder with an entity being funded. I know from personal experience that Mike was absolutely scrupulous about making sure this did not happen. I doubt it is likely that the WMUK Board would be discussing funding something with CIPR. If it does discuss something of this sort, I will act as Mike did and take no part in it. The same would apply to any trustee in any job. Mike has also pointed out that I need to make a statement about how I will manage any conflicts of interest which may arise, and I will do so. A statement will need to cover as many ‘what if’ scenarios as possible. As I mentioned earlier today it would be helpful to me in thinking about this for people to come forward with ‘what if’ questions so that I can set out clearly what I would do in each case and include all of that in my statement. Thanks Mccapra (talk) 12:55, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

I must admit I wonder why Alistair feels it appropriate to encourage members to spend their time coming up with a series of "What if" scenarios, when he should be encouraging us to contribute towards Wikipedia and its sister projects. The very fact, which he supports, that there are a range of unpredictable scenarios would seem to indicate that this is a matter which cannot be effectively dealt with by a statement. When he points out that his future employers are one of "the few organisations in the country which has explicitly directed its members to follow Wikipedia rules", far from indicating a lack of conflict of interest, this rather indicates the contrary: for most organisations there is no specific reason to issue such guidance. As a trustee Alistair should be looking at the matter from the perspective of the charity, and I hope he will consider the situation fully before embroils us all in another governance debate.Leutha (talk) (Sorry I forget to log in before) 14:53, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm really not intending to ask anyone to spend a lot of time on this or embroil anyone in anything. However I would appreciate it if some of those are arguing strongly that there is obviously a conflict of interest could spell out how, in practical terms, they think this might present itself. I can think of a few not very likely scenarios, which I have mentioned above. But clearly some people feel there are aspects of this I have not fully addressed. What are they? Thanks Mccapra (talk) 16:06, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

CIPR define public relations as "the discipline which looks after reputation, with the aim of earning understanding and support and influencing opinion and behaviour." (my italics) The second of our five pillars states that Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view. The essential job of the PR is to influence and manipulate public opinion to favour their client. This fundamentally conflicts with one of our highest principles and is why this appointment is a problem and why it is different from any other appointment. Aggravating factors include the already fraught relationship with the PR industry, which should serve as a warning to us, the disparity in commitment (full time CIPR, part time here) and pay (salaried I assume there, nothing here). No PR firm will ever seek any form of balance in their work. The work is essentially partisan and therefore the whole ethos of the profession is contrary to our values. A man cannot serve two masters, particularly where their objectives are fundamentally in conflict and where one pays and the other doesn't. It lacks credibility. Philafrenzy (talk) 17:14, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

It may not be Alistair's intention to sap volunteers' time or embroil people, however this clearly what is happening as I find myself once again contributing to this discussion. I feel that his focus on his own psychological state (i.e. intentions) rather than on the consequences of his retaining both roles as Wikimedia UK Trustee and CIPR CEO illustrates the point I made above. I am also left wondering whether his failure to respond to my point is indicative that he hopes to discourage further critical comment by simply ignoring it! So perhaps I should be content myself with suggesting that Jimbo has made the point in a much better way than me:

"It is obviously a conflict of interest and clearly demands a choice between one or the other. There is no shame in that - such is the nature of nonprofit work. But especially for Wikimedia UK, with a history of problems in this area, it's absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt something that has to be handled with the utmost defensiveness about the reputation of the organization. I trust that Alastair will do the right thing." (See here)

Leutha (talk) 22:41, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Leutha and Philafrenzy. Some conflicts of interest can be managed. Mike Peel's employment by Manchester University is a good example. In these cases, setting out how the conflict will be managed and then managing it in an open way are, hopefully, sufficient. Some conflicts relate to the very purpose of organisations. These conflicts are effectively impossible to manage. The potentially problematic situations can not be listed in advance. They are infinite in their variety. Even if, as situations arise, the correct decisions are made, it will be impossible for the community to be confident of that. Alastair can not be expected to document his every conversation, still less his every thought. Yaris678 (talk) 10:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any problem in this case. Secretary of WMUK is not a position that comes into conflict with CEO of CIPR. WMUK as a whole has limited, if any, impact on public relations involvement in Wikipedia (positive or negative). Secretary is also not a good position from which to easily subvert the chapter and begin infiltrating the entire organisation. Even if, say, Alastair starts laughing maniacally the moment he becomes CEO and pushes for edit-a-thons and training sessions on white-washing biographies it (a) isn't going to mean anything because anyone else can undo it, (b) it will be really obvious if this happens, and (c) he isn't the only trustee. If anything, I expect the influence to work the other way: CEO of a national professional body is a position from which influence extends (and by which Wikimedia could subvert and infiltrate, etc). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 05:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

You have identified one unlikely scenario that could be dealt with easily. But you seem to be missing my point that the purposes of the organisations are in conflict. FWIW, I don't suspect Alastair of being part of any plot and I really hope he can be part of there being a good relationship between WMUK and CIPR. However, he can't do that by holding both roles simultaneously. By having this unmanageable conflict of interest he could easily and unintentionally end up doing harm to both organisations. Yaris678 (talk) 09:02, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I also don't suspect Alastair of being part of a plot but we can't know what was in the minds of the CIPR selectors when they gave him the job as Chief Exec in an industry in which, as he says, he had no past experience. I realise that Alastair had senior experience in similar membership organisations that no doubt fitted him for the job but there were, I expect, other candidates. The relationship with Wikipedia is certainly one of the hot issues in the PR world and given the poor quality of many of our articles I don't blame them. If I was a PR I would really want to ensure that my client's article reflected well on my client since it will be on the first page of a Google search every time and probably the top result. I would want to exert whatever influence I could to improve that article. That's what the PR industry is paid to do. It's not good enough to say "it probably won't happen" or "there is not much scope for it to happen" or "we will spot it if it does happen" or "the other Trustees will reign Alastair in" or any of the other things mentioned above. The Charities Commission has some useful comments about what they define as a "conflict of loyalty" which is also mentioned in the Companies Act 2006 in reference to Directors of charitable companies (we are caught by both sets of rules). Section d. here says conflicts of interest include those arising from "conflicts of duty which do not involve any material benefit to a director, for example, where a director is also a charity trustee of another charity which might be in competition with the charity ("conflicts of loyalty")" I don't think CIPR is a charity but the concept of a conflict of loyalty certainly seems to sum up what we have here. There is a risk of reputational damage to Wikimedia UK, to the CIPR and to Alastair himself that we would all be wise to avoid. In fact, I am a little surprised that CIPR, if they are as principled as they say they are, have not asked Alastair to resign here. Why haven't they? Philafrenzy (talk) 10:34, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

It has now been one week since Fae raised this here and I suspect that everyone who is going to add their views has done so. The matter has also been on Jimbo's talk page and in the Signpost. I believe I am correct that there does appear to be a consensus, including from certain people whose views we should respect, that this appointment represents a serious conflict of interest. Perhaps Alastair and the board could comment on what action, if any, they propose to take in this matter? I would be particularly interested to know whether any legal advice has been taken regarding the "conflict of loyalty" question and what the result of that advice was. I am sure nobody wants to give the impression that they are hoping the matter will just go away. Given the past problems in this area it is essential that a clear and robust rationale is given for any decisions taken. If the matter is still under discussion, please say so and give a timeline for when it may be resolved. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:39, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Philafrenzy - yes, happy to update you. We discussed this at the Board meeting on Saturday. The Board's view was that there was not a fundamental conflict between the two roles. It was important to us in reaching that conclusion that CIPR's formal position is that their members should respect Wikipedia policies and that deliberately seeking to circumvent those policies is unethical professional conduct. It is also worth noting that previously we have had Trustees who were professional media consultants without a scintilla of a suggestion that this conflicted with their role as Wikimedia UK trustees and directors.

Given the sensitivities of this and the views expressed here, Alastair and I are going to meet later this week to go through different scenarios that might be problematic and work out how we would handle each of them, and use that as the basis of a more thorough declaration along the lines of Mike Peel's suggestion. It is possible in that conversation we will find something that makes us think "actually this isn't going to work", but assuming that doesn't happen, Alastair will remain a valuable Trustee.

We are currently having our progress against the Hudson Review recommendations audited by a consultant called Rosie Chapman. We will ask her to review how we've handled this and include that in her report. The Land (talk) 19:57, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Alastair, you said above, "If you have a look at what negative stories tend to run in the press about Wikipedia, it is usually about hoaxes, inaccuracies, trustees being paid to work on projects, and pornography. Would the press really get excited about my job? It doesn't seem likely to me." If I look at the types of negative stories that have run in the press, one consistent theme – almost a meme, really – is covert exercise of influence on Wikipedia's content by PR professionals. Indeed, I have myself had a hand in alerting the press to several cases of this type. I can assure you that the press's interest in this type of story is significant, and rightly so, as there are few other scenarios more likely to undermine the credibility of Wikipedia than this one. Jimmy Wales has on several occasions been very outspoken about this matter and made comments that have attracted significant attention.

Now, like most matters related to Wikipedia, there are two sides to this issue.

On the one hand, Wikipedia is extremely vulnerable to both subtle and gross bias and defamation. I would like PR professionals to have a seat at the Wikipedia table: there should be a much better-functioning mechanism for people to make complaints about how they are being portrayed in Wikipedia than there is at present. As it is, I cannot morally judge companies and other organisations who make clandestine use of commercial editing services to ensure that they are not being misrepresented in Wikipedia, given that Wikipedia's gates are wide open to clandestine bias and defamation from those companies' and organisations' detractors.

On the other hand, we are seeing more and more advice columns from PR professionals on how to leverage Wikipedia in their clients' or employers' interest. This includes both denigrating competitors, and sanitising one's own entry and/or making it as positive and compelling as possible. Allowing this to go on unchecked is not in the readers' or Wikipedia's interest.

The CIPR has done good work with WMUK in the past to outline some basic terms of engagement. But it cannot be denied that the interface between the PR industry and Wikipedia is among the biggest challenges both Wikipedia and the PR industry face. It is not a settled area; there are still diverse views, from Jimmy Wales' outspoken hostility to PR efforts in Wikipedia to the German model where PR professionals are invited to register verified company accounts ("User:Coca Cola Germany") and contribute in a transparent way. Dirk Franke in Germany is currently conducting a major study of paid editing for Wikimedia, and will I believe report in a few months' time. There is also uncertainty about the legal situation, at least in the EU – see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-11-12/News_and_notes this Signpost article. To my mind there is no doubt that the interaction between the PR industry and Wikipedia is an area that will continue to be negotiated and re-negotiated over the coming years (including, perhaps, the legal arena, to clarify what the law does and does not allow). The outcome of all these discussions is of vital interest to both parties and the public.

Wikimedia UK has played a significant role in this process in the past, and will continue to do so. However, it follows that your having a leadership role in both organisations, simultaneously, constitutes an ineluctable conflict of interest whenever the topic is raised, and that it will be perceived as such by the media and public. A collegial and productive relationship between WMUK and CIPR is, I believe, desirable, and as I say, there is past good work to build on here. But I believe that having one person perform a leadership role in both organisations will ultimately prove to be to the detriment of both. It will certainly make WMUK vulnerable. Regards, Andreas JN 18:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out and explaining aspects of this matter which may, as you indicate, have a bearing on whether or not I can continue to serve as a trustee. My belief is that as between my future employer and Wikimedia UK, these questions are settled, but as you point out there are much wider dimensions to be considered.

It may well be that for one reason or another my employment puts me in situations where I do indeed have a conflict of interest. If that turns out to be the case I am aware that I may have to resign. I certainly do not want to give everyone the impression that I am just insisting on carrying on, regardless of the circumstances.

For the time being, I have not even started to work for CIPR, so no situation of possible conflict has even arisen. The Wikimedia UK Board has discussed the situation and concluded, unanimously, that there is no reason for me to resign for the time being. Equally, if circumstances change, they may well come to a different view. I will be discussing the situation with our independent governance reviewer, and it may be that they will advise the Board that I should resign, in which case I will. I am certainly not interested in exposing Wikimedia UK to criticism or embarassment. On the question of press interest, you may be aware that energetic efforts were made last week to interest the press in my two roles, and there was no interest whatsoever. What I do maintain, for now, is that there is nothing automatic in my roles which forces me to resign at once. If the situation changes, I won’t need pushing. Mccapra (talk) 21:33, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

BCS Women invites you to their Festival of Wikipedia for Ada Lovelace day

Hello everyone, thought you might be interested to see that BCS Women, a part of the Chartered Institute of IT, is hosting a Festival of Wikipedia as a part of this year's Ada Lovelace Day celebrations. There are sessions in Edinburgh, London and Southampton and they are being delivered in association with Wikimedia UK. You can find more details here. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 11:14, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

And here! Especially if you are available as a trainer. Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 11:48, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK spreads the word about GLAM showcase stories in Poland

Dear All,

We have been invited to participate in the openGLAM Conference 2013 - Open Cultural Resources. The main purpose of the conference is to present outstanding examples of implemented initiatives as well as to discuss the benefits - and challenges - of openness. I am able to attend and show Polish GLAMs how they can benefit from the partnerships with Wikimedia using examples from the UK. I'd love to get suggestions from you as for what would be the best examples to present. Wikimedia Poland has been particularly interested in the Wikimedian in Residence programme, but any other suggestions are welcome!

Many thanks - Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 11:55, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Migration of the UK Wiki on 27th September 2013

If I could direct your attention to this page on Wikimedia UK's site: WMUK wiki migration

It contains the details of the migration, the impact it will have on users of the UK wiki who have user accounts, and how the old wiki will be archived as a read only document. You will also see a site notice go live for the next two weeks reminding readers to do the following...

The most important things to do in the next two weeks are:

• Enable email from other users
• Download your watch list text before the migration (put in your diary for the day before)

Following the migration you will need to:

• Check your email for your new password to a stub account on the migrated site
• Reimport your watch list data
• Update your bookmarks in your browser or phone
• Log any emerging errors on our bugzilla - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org.uk/

The above is only necessary if you currently have a registered user account.

If you don't have an account on the UK wiki but follow this list then, why not register? Logged in users can interact better with other members of the community around Wikimedia UK business by adding agendas and topic pages to their watch list and staying up to day with chapter business :-)

Any questions, fire away here, on my talk page, or email me katherine.bavagewikimedia.org.uk. NB I am on annual leave 16th - 20th inclusive, so will ask other members of staff and User:Kelson to keep an eye out and respond in my absence! Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 13:26, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you could do a quick note explaining how users can import watchlist data. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:05, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

This is in the linked to page at WMUK wiki migration. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 15:32, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

What should our volunteer space look like?

In the London office we have always tried to make volunteers feel welcome with places to sit (or slump in the case of bean bags), wireless, coffee, bics etc but are we getting it right?

In October we are re-designing our space and hope to make some changes that might give us the chance to offer volunteers more of what they fancy?

At the moment we have:

• Sitting area
• Spares screens and keyboards
• Spare laptops
• Wifi of decent quality
• A slide scanner
• AN SLR camera with accessories
• A DV camera with accessories
• Digital recording equipment

Amongst other suggestions we have had are to establish s small reference library to help with editing.

What would you like to see? Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 13:38, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

On the topic of the reference library, I've started to bring in some of the books I own about the First World War so that they can be used as sources for any interested in doing some editing on this topic, particularly around the centenary. Do let me know if you're interested and I can provide a list. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

A list of equipment currently available for volunteer use can be seen at Volunteer equipment, while a list of books currently owned by the chapter can be seen at Library. -- Katie Chan (WMUK) (talk) 14:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Beanbags are nice for lounging, but for those hoping to pop in and work with a laptop a couple of desks would be most useful. And some chairs to go with them. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

We'll have a couple more of those - maybe enough space for 12 or 14 desks (up from ten). In addition, we'll be paying per sq ft, not per desk, so this will be something we can do without spending too much more. Richard Symonds (WMUK) (talk) 15:08, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Registration for EduWiki Conference 2013 is now open

Hello everyone, just a quick note to let you know that registration for our 2013 EduWiki Conference is now open. The conference takes place on 1 & 2 November in Cardiff. You can find all of the details, including the registration information, here. We're looking forward to seeing you all there. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 14:53, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Signpost discussion

Note ongoing discussion between Stevie and myself, concerning the York Museums Trust Wikipedian in Residence job, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-09-11/In_the_media Andreas JN 14:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

For those interested in the discussion, I've added a further response which I hope is helpful. Thank you. Stevie Benton (WMUK) (talk) 13:12, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Basically, the upshot of the conversation from my point of view is that

1. it would make sense to co-ordinate publicity with partner institutions, so the public does not gain the impression that WMUK is funding institutions' self-promotion;
2. if we have money to spend, we should focus less on broadening Wikipedia's coverage of niche subjects, and more on enhancing the quality of pages that both (a) attract high page views AND (b) cover topics that it is important for Wikipedia to get right (e.g. medical advice, including drugs advice and sex education, legal advice, "vital articles", etc.)

If we use donors' funds, we should prioritise projects in a way that ensures both that the largest possible number of readers profit, and that the improvements are as significant as possible from an educational point of view. I would like to see WMUK expand the Wikipedian-in-Residence concept beyond the GLAM area, paying subject matter experts in reputable educational organisations to monitor and contribute to important articles and topic areas in Wikipedia.

Further discussion welcome. Best, Andreas JN 12:44, 18 September 2013 (UTC)