Talk:Training the Trainers/February 2013 event

Location

Whilst Newcastle is a fantastic city, I'm not sure if it is the best location for this course - it would take me 3 hours to drive there and 4½ on the train. Of the six people who have signed up so far, at least four are based in the North West. I don't know where Katherine Bavage and Richard Nevell are based, but I get the impression that they're not from the Newcastle area either. So everyone is going to have to travel a long way, which would increase the costs and environmental impact. Of course, it is early days and North Easterners could still sign up, but I think it would be a better idea to change the location to Manchester. Alternatively, Leeds might be preferable as it is more central for both the North East and North West. Bazonka (talk) 20:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Personally speaking, Manchester would be much better for me; it would save several hours driving. (Or, failing that, Leeds / Liverpool / York / Sheffield / wherever). However, if a Newcastle is definitely nailed down and inflexible, so be it. Bobrayner (talk) 22:42, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

I queried the choice of location at the 8th Jan board meeting, on the basis that five of the potential attendees for this event were from Manchester, and the other two (Katherine and Richard) were from London, but I was (somewhat fairly) accused of micromanagement at that meeting as a result. The explanation of the location choice was that the office had selected this location so that it would generally appeal to to Scottish and Northern volunteers, who were going to appealed to by email based on our donor database, which is fair enough given that the last two training events were based in London. I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome of that appeal. At the same time, I would recommend that we hold a training event in the north west sometime soon. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:02, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

(COI note: I'm based in the north west, and I would like to undertake this training at some point, however I'm neutral as to the location that the training takes place as I'm equally happy to travel or not travel as appropriate). Mike Peel (talk) 23:12, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that would be micromanagement at the board level. It's the kind of thing that should be overseen by the education committee, but I don't think that exists yet. --Tango (talk) 00:42, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree that it was a good idea to try and get NE and Scotland editors involved in this course, and I can also see the point that an attempt to change this from the outset could be construed as micromanagement. But that was then and this is now. This call for interest has been open for some time now, and absolutely zero North Easterners or Scots have so far expressed an interest. The initial rationale for holding this event in Newcastle doesn't seem to have borne fruit, so at this stage it would be more pragmatism than micromanagement to reconsider the location. Of course there is still time for others to sign up (the geo-notice about the event has only recently been published), but presumably the longer this is left unaddressed, the harder it will be to change. I can make it to Newcastle (one of my favourite cities); my main concern is the cost of transporting several people to somewhere that they don't really need to go to. Bazonka (talk) 07:59, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I'd concur that Newcastle is a very long way, given the lack of NE and Scottish people who are suggesting they'd like to come. Also, I'm curious to know how many spaces there are on the course? Worm^TT(talk) 08:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I'll chime in, that wherever it is, I'll likely be taking the train. I'm based just north of Manchester, so I'd personally prefer it to be near there, if it's not too late to change it. Mark M (Talk) 09:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Morning all! I am indeed 'London' based, but as Mike and others know I originally hail from Leeds and have family and my other half who could all put me up for free if needed :) Richard N is also based in London, but hails from Manchester.

That said, I have no objection to Newcastle, and me and Daria have ID'd 500+ donors in our database with Newcastle as their city, and 16 members based in Scotland or Newcastle. If the email generated a high expression of interest perhaps the Chapter would have to consider running two sessions - one in Manc/Leeds and one in Newcastle at a later date? I'll draw this thread to Daria's attention Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 09:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

There are 12 spaces on the course. This event has not been promoted widely until now because of lack of approval, so the expectation is that we will be getting more bookings within the next month. Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 10:54, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Daria. I know Stacey (my partner) would be interested if there are empty spaces, but she's not keen on taking a spot from someone who spends more time on the encyclopedia. I'll keep an eye on the number of spots! Worm^TT(talk) 11:35, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Getting the right place is/was always going to be tricky but AT LEAST IT ISN'T LONDON! We are not insane, if nobody from the NE or Scotland comes forward we will consider other options but these are two areas we are weak in and need to build capacity, that is why we chose them. Sorry about the 'micromanaging' comment but a month before an event we cannot re-open the debate and this is a decision that should not be made at a board level. We have wikis to consult people on and staff to organise things based on that. Staff now have the go-ahead, after the board meeting on Tuesday, to plan the next event. If Newcastle won't work we could adjust. In a much more positive note we agreed the budget as well on Tuesday with the chance of two more Train the Trainers. My favourite places, based on need (not pubs or art cinemas), would be Cardiff or Bristol, Manchester or Liverpool, a city in the Esat or West Midlands or Southampton. I hope the Education Committee can start taking a lead on this. Any other suggestions to Daria Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 13:06, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I am going to move my commitment to attend this event onto the back burner if an alternative NW event is on the cards. Newcastle really is a pain to get to (London is much easier!). My personal view is that having a local base of editors is all well and good, but really to get them to sign up to something like this, then they already need to be active in extra-curricular Wiki stuff. The best way to do this is to start building an off-line community with regular Wikimeets. (As far as I know, there have never been meetups in Newcastle, Edinburgh, Leeds, or anywhere in that direction.) I would certainly have never considered signing up to a train the trainer event if I wasn't already active in attending Wikimeets in the North West, and whilst this wouldn't be the case for everyone, I think it is probably the majority view. Bazonka (talk) 17:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Are there actually any attendees based in the north-east, if not Newcastle?

If there is actually a commitment for future sessions to be near where attendees are based, but if this session can't move, then I'll sit it out and wait for one which is closer to me. If it were "Newcastle or nothing" then I'd drive across the country, of course. Bobrayner (talk) 00:26, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Jon, with regard to this point: but these are two areas we are weak in and need to build capacity, that is why we chose them. "Train the Trainers" seems, on a strategic level, to be the sort of session you run once you have a group of volunteers with interest - i.e. to develop the group as trainers and volunteers. It seems badly suited to attracting newbie volunteers... I think a Manchester session, as one of the major other clusters of active volunteers, is an important target. --ErrantX (talk) 14:19, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Manchester

After the above discussion it has been decided that the February Train the Trainers event will be held in Manchester. The dates remain the same. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:43, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

To echo ErrantX above, there's a psychological barrier for many editors to get together in meatspace. Once folks have actually met together, they enjoy it and will usually meet up again. The problem is that a whole weekend, which is needed for TfT, is a big commitment, and adding the anticipation of training with meeting other Wikimedians for the first time is likely to put off all but the most extrovert of editors (and there's not many of us about).

I suggest that getting folks together for social events, like the wikimeets is the ice-breaker needed. Editors can stay for as long or as short as they want, and there is a positive effort from the regulars to make them feel welcome. Once editors have got past that stage and are comfortable with each other, it is much easier to involve them in local projects and events. If I'm right about this, then the next TfT should be in Cambridge to capitalise on the regular wikimeets there, and we need to encourage wikimeets in Nottingham/Derby, Sheffield/Leeds, Newcastle, and Glasgow/Edinburgh. I just saw Adam Cuerden writing "it'd be nice to talk Wikipedia with someone for once" (he's in Edinburgh), and Cutiekatie (who comes to Manchester wikimeets and has signed up here) lives "in the middle of Scotland". There's a start for the Volunteer Development joblist. --RexxS (talk) 17:30, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Good call with rescheduling to Manchester, and I totally agree with RexxS. And don't forget Belfast as well - there must be plenty of NI editors. Bazonka (talk) 17:32, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Crashing space

If there's anyone travelling to this event from quite far away and doesn't want to fork out for a hotel, I live in a flat in Manchester city centre and would be more than happy to offer my sofa, a blanket, and pillows to someone who wants it. --Deskana (talk) (email) 13:55, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

That's very generous Deskana. WMUK has offered to cover accommodation costs for those who need to stay in Manchester overnight. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:43, 22 January 2013 (UTC)