Talk:Main Page

Comments

Excellents job getting this started. This looks like an excellent start and will hopefully involve as many people as possible. I've got some general comments to make with how the chapter should operate, and I'd like to highlight what I perceive as failing from the first attempt.

I firstly get the impression that people wishing to become members were messed around some what. A post from the mailing list shows people had applied for guarantor membership yet heard little from it. For this to be a success, we need the people with board positions to take into consideration the thoughts and suggestions by the volunteers wishing to help. I can't believe that membership requests from some excellent contributors went unanswered. That's not only rude, but it makes people less willing to contribute to the chapter.

In line with this, comments like this from board members should be completely discouraged in any future WMUK. Wacky suggestions of stalking from people that are supposed to be leading the project forward is quite astonishing really. I'd like to see the new board take a more proactive effort at engaging members and associates of the chapter rather than dismissing their qestions as trolling.

We need to make a definite focus. One of the major problems last time round was that the chapter was blinkered in the respect that it put all its energy into getting charity status. Start small, grow big. We should move at the pace that we are working at, not be forced into starting higher on the hierachy with not enough interest to back that up. As we grow in member number, we can then move toward charity status, but we need to get fully organised before attempting anything too big.

Lastly, right from the start we should start looking for places we can promote the WMF. In line with what I said previously, start with small conferences/trade fairs and we can move up from there. We don't need to be getting huge donations from the start, just simply putting our names around.

There are other things I've got to say, but that'll do for now. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

message for wikiprojects

Working draft of message for wikiprojects:

As a UK-oriented WikiProject, you might be interested in the formation of a new Wikimedia UK chapter, to replace the now-defunct previous attempt. At this point we are looking for people generally interested, potential members, candidates for the board and people with experence with charities.~~~~ Geni 22:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

election dates

Currently looking at sept 29th with last call for candiates sept 27th.Geni 23:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd make that end 26th (i.e. Friday) if nothing more than make it a round end of week date. KTC 23:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposed Name

"Wiki Information Network" appears to have a fair degree of support. Will trade under wikimedia UK.Geni 01:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I suggest something very neutral like ‘Society/Institute for Open Knowledge’ (avoiding confusion with v1.0, namely ‘Wiki Educational Resources Ltd’), then trade under ‘Wikimedia UK’ with licence from the Wikimedia Foundation. Try Companies House’s WebCHeck. – Kaihsu 12:11, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

It's worth bearing in mind the acronym: "Wiki Information Network", or WIN, is quite nice. "Society for Open Knowledge", or SOK (Sock?), isn't quite as nice. Mike Peel 18:38, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

milestones

Wikimedia UK v2.0/Timeline

Should there not be an early milestone (before draft Memorandum) to define objectives and the public benefit in a way compatible with the Charity Commission rules? (see [1], [2] and [3]) Also there is no milestone to register the company with the Charity Commission ([4] and [5]), but perhaps that is what is meant by Contact HMRC regarding tax-exempt status? It seems to me essential to create the company with memorandum and articles of association that will be accepted by the Charity Commission without modification. NB The Charity Commission has Model Memorandum and Articles of Association[6] (see also [7]) that would probably be ideal for the company, and save work. Rwendland 12:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

we can only become a registered charity once we have an income of over £5,000 - since we don't know when that will be, it's not on the timeline. until then, we can become a tax-exempt organisation by registering with HMRC. (OTOH, i agree we should consider future registration as a charity now, rather than later.) Kate 12:59, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah. Hadn't noticed the £5,000 rule, sorry. Might still be worth using the Charity Commission Model Memorandum and Articles of Association etc so it would be ready for simple registration when/if income got there. I did wonder if incorporating was a good idea with a low income - do you have an estimate for annual accounts/accountancy costs? I'm a director of a small consultancy co, and I'd estimate the accountant annual accounts & companies house costs of running a small commercial co at £500 to £1000/year. It is a shame the new Charitable Incorporated Organisation is not yet available. Rwendland 14:53, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right, the Mem and Arts need to be written with charitable status in mind. I think we can pretty much keep the ones from WMUK v1.0, they were pretty standard (and heavily based on the models, from what I can tell). I'd like to rethink the goals slightly (I think Wikimedia should be explicitly mentioned, in addition to more general goals), but that's all. The smaller we are, the simpler the accounting requirements are, as long as we're still very small I think we can probably do it without paying an accountant at all. Once we get to a size when we need expertise, hopefully we can find it within the community for free. --Tango 18:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

talkpage message

As a UK based editor you might be interested in the formation of a new Wikimedia UK chapter, to replace the now-defunct previous attempt. At this point we are looking for people generally interested, potential members, candidates for the board and people with experence with charities.~~~~

userpage sign

At this point needs to be big bigger than a userbox.Geni 03:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Please help with forming the new Wikimedia UK chapter

• We may wish to make this bigger. I almost didn't notice it. Anthøny 16:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Scope

from IRC:

• England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland (probably)
• Isle of Man, Channel Islands - maybe?

Projects to inform at village pumps and the like

Please strikethough once done

• • wikipedia

*en *simple *Cy *Sco

• Sco (Irish)

*gd (Scottish Gaelic *gv (manx) *kw (cornish)

• • Wiktionary
• en
• simple
• Cy
• ga

• • Commons

• • wikiquote
• en
• cy

other informing people stuff

I posted a quick notice at w:en:Wikipedia talk:UK Wikipedians' notice board#Wikimedia UK v2.0 the wub "?!" 16:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, if I have time tomorrow I'll write up a brief article for the Signpost, I'll probably post a link here for people to check/discuss. the wub "?!" 17:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

en:User:Cfp/Sandbox2

Village pump notice

A plan is in the works to found a new UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation and we are ready to begin gathering support from the community. If you are interesting in being part of a new UK chapter either as a member or a board member or just want to register a general interest, please head over to m:Wikimedia UK v2.0 and let us know and help put some finishing touches to the plans. An election will shortly be held for the initial board who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting application to membership. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board to take the chapter forward to begin fundraising and supporting the Wikimedia community in the UK in whatever ways we can. (User:Geni)

How about:

A plan is in the works to found a new UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation, and we are currently gathering support from the community. If you are interesting in being part of this new UK chapter as a member, a board member or as someone with a general interest in the chapter, please head over to m:Wikimedia UK v2.0 and let us know. We welcome help in making finishing touches to the plans. An election will be held shortly for the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board, which will take the chapter forward, starting to raise funds and generally supporting the Wikimedia community in the UK.

although "We welcome help in making finishing touches to the plans." doesn't fit in particularly well... Mike Peel 18:56, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

"we also welcome" perhaps?Geni 20:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

With that change, I think it's a good notice. I might reverse board member and member, though, since board members are also members. "as a board member, a regular member or just as someone with a general interest" (then it's in decreasing order of commitment) --Tango 23:21, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the risk of confusion is high enough to worry.Geni 23:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's confusing, it just reads slightly better. We're not going for a literary masterpiece, though, so it's not that important. --Tango 23:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

A couple of comments

It's great to see movement with this: from lurking on the mailing list for a while, it does sound like starting from a new slate is needed. I've added myself to the list(s), but have more than a few questions. A few to kick things off, and to make sure I'm thinking along the right lines:

As the webpage is currently written, WMUK2 seems to solely aim towards being a company/charity. I get that that has to be the top-most priority, but I'm worried that there isn't any discussion or description of the intended aims of the group, both long-term and short-term, outside this. Was this a conscious decision, and if so why? I'm worried that without at least some indication of plans beyond a company/charity, a lot of potential supporters will be turned off.

Are there plans to transfer over things like the website domain (wikimedia.org.uk) from WMUK1 to 2? If it is of use, then I'm willing to put together and/or host the website for the company.

Mike Peel 18:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Mostly because some of us percive that the board being destracted from setting things up was the problem last time. Once we've sorted out who the board will be those not on the board will probably start collecting the many many ideas for what WMUK can do and looking for futher ones.Geni 20:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's going to be a chapter and we know roughly what chapters do, they support the goals of the WMF/Wikimedia community is their home country. What that involves depends on what people choose to do. The way I see it, the chapter will probably only directly handle fundraising and other financial matters, with other things it will just support the local community. The board probably aren't going to be organising all the events and publicity and everything (they may choose to organise some, of course), that will be up to the community. The board will then approve the plans and hand over the cash (and throw their titles around where needed). What people choose to do with the chapter doesn't really matter at this stage, we're just talking about getting it set up. As for the domain name, I did bring it up on IRC, and I think the conclusion was that we need to talk to JamesF (who apparently owns it). I don't believe anyone has contacted him about it yet, but I'm sure they will in due course (the domain can't be transferred until there is something to transfer it to, so there is no hurry). --Tango 23:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

MoA, AoA

I have copied the Mem and Arts from the previous incarnation to Wikimedia UK v2.0/MoA and Wikimedia UK v2.0/AoA, changed the names and removed the old goals (I think we should rethink them slightly). Please make comments on their talk pages regarding changes you think should be made. --Tango 00:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Companies Act 2006 caused some changes to the MoA and AoA - at least for charities.[8] I wonder if it would be best to start from the latest Charity Commission models, for the final version at least? [9] Rwendland 01:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

You may have a good point, there. I was thinking sticking with the old one makes it easier to get approval from WMF, but starting again from the new models may make it easier in the long run with the charity commission, which is probably the more important consideration (the WMF is far more flexible about the details, I imagine). --Tango 04:14, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Congrats! - and some ideas....

G'day folks! - and congrat.s on moving this forward. Advice I'd offer on first impression (for what it's worth) is to try and really 'reboot' all discussions from here on in. To slow down, and ensure everything is thought through, and done properly (it goes without saying that I see no indication that this isn't in fact the case!! :-) ).

I'd say it's worth taking a look at Wikimedia Australia, something I've been a little involved with - and (again, just first impression really) - I think it'd be worth making pages here like Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/aims Wikimedia_UK_v2.0/planned activities etc. - I'd say the actual work you're planning on doing / supporting should be a higher priority than just rigorous deadlines for chapter formation itself as a goal per se...

Finally, one little small one is that I would like to be a paid up 'member' in whatever way you guys figure out is best - and I would like to be able to vote in elections for Directors (or other office bearers) - however that's implemented technically / systemically, is that what you chaps are aiming for? :-) again well done! well done! well done! :-) cheers, Privatemusings 21:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

you can see sort of what I mean by reviewing this version of the page - I'd suggest it as an improvement :-) Privatemusings 22:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

The goals that are written in the Memorandum are somewhat different from what we actually plan to do. The official goals need to be pretty general so we don't unnecessarily restrict ourselves - I've started discussion of those goals on /MoA. What people plan to do with the chapter is up to them and doesn't really matter at this stage. --Tango 22:38, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Paid up members are "supporting members", members that are allowed to vote are "guarantor members". Technically those are independent, but I think it's generally expected that guarantor members will also be supporting members. The other way round is another matter, though - there are legal requirements and liabilities for guarantor members, so not all supporting members will be guarantor members. As for planned activities, the way I see it, the chapter exists to facilitate the community in whatever they want to do, it's not necessary for those running the chapter to be involved in coming up with ideas for things to do (they can be if they want, of course). --Tango 22:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

"What people plan to do with the chapter is up to them and doesn't really matter at this stage"... I'd add the rather important ..'to you' to that bit :-) - I think it's fantastic that you're so motivated to get the chapter off the ground - I appreciate it personally (because I'm english 'n all, and would like to see a flourishing 'home' chapter!). If I'm reading you correctly, you're seeing your role as a facilitator - or maybe that you're able to help push through whatever hurdles there may be and actually bring a chapter into existence! - Given the history of this chapter, this perspective is entirely understandable! I would however look for leadership at the board level of any chapter as to the planned activities, and how you might achieve them.. give it some thought! :-) Privatemusings 22:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)