User talk:Tango/Consultancy

Hi Tango, in a narrow sense I think that if the community allowed it this could work. At least as far as the paid editors and their clients were concerned. I think you'd have a problem recruiting unpaid volunteer trustees who were willing to take responsibility for a business that others profited from and they didn't. Though you might find that a little easier if this was employing people who otherwise struggle in the job market - wheel chair users for example. You'd have a bigger problem with the community as this is clearly paid editing, and paid editing by people who know their way round Wikipedia. In my view any situation where Wikipedians take on paying clients is going to be contentious, and those Wikipedians who participate are going to come under pressure to edit favourably to their clients. BTW thanks for moving this to a wiki, but it should really have been meta or Wikipedia EN as this really isn't something where the UK could have different rules. WereSpielChequers (talk) 23:29, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

You may have a point that finding the directors (they're not really trustees - it's not a trust) could be difficult. I don't think it would be too much work, though, and you get to help raise money for WMUK and take business away from people that are doing the same thing in the wrong way. If you want the business to be successful, then you need to hire people based on their ability to do the job. Positive discrimination is just as bad for business as negative discrimination. This is very specifically not paid editing. The consultants wouldn't be doing anything other than the things we tell people with conflicts of interest they ought to be doing (posting on talk pages, mostly). It's not really any different to a member of staff at a company emailing OTRS and going through all the steps they are told about, just that the consultant knows how to do it more effectively. I chose to post this here because I think if this were to happen, it would be very closely affiliated with (if not owned by) Wikimedia UK. (There could be similar businesses in other countries, of course.) Also, there is a chance of getting a fair hearing here - if this were on meta or enwiki, any productive discussion would get drowned out. --Tango (talk) 23:44, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for fleshing this out. I do agree with the underlying problem statement: the present complaints system is full of pitfalls, and is positively customer-hostile to anyone who does not speak "the right language". I've dropped a link to this page on the CREWE Facebook page, and have also added a link and brief summary (feel free to edit it) in en:WP in the ongoing discussion on Jimbo's talk page about how the Wikipedia complaints system could be improved. Andreas JN 01:01, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like a replica of what I do for companies, except that profits are donated to WMF. I am not sure it's a good idea for WMF to get involved in a for-profit consultancy service related to its own website, but clearer guidelines and processes for corporate participation on Wikipedia will result in the behavior your advocating for in the commercial sector.

On the other hand, companies willing to give up editorial control could follow a similar model using the reward board, which puts WMF in a less awkward position. If company XYZ posts a $1,000 reward for a GA article, that would blow up the reward board.

One of the problems isn't that Wikipedia consultants don't know ethical best practices, but that companies themselves (the clients) don't know what is or isn't ethical. There is so much misinformation on the topic, that otherwise ethical companies unknowingly engage in unlawful astroturfing on Wikipedia, while other ethical companies wrongly believe that any participation on Wikipedia is risky and unethical.

If we can establish clearer boundaries, companies will participate in the manner outlined in this page on their own, whether through a consultant or in-house. Corporate 02:22, 5 October 2012 (UTC)