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| {|style="float:right;border:solid silver 1px;margin-left:8px;margin-bottom:4px;" | | {{divbox|blue|Welcome to the water cooler| This is a place to find out what is happening and to discuss our external projects and activities. Feel free to suggest ideas that could help our charitable mission or ask questions about how you can help. To discuss the inner workings of the charity, head over to the [[engine room]].}} |
| | {{divbox|green|WMUK Grants programme - a piece of cake?[[file:Tile wmuk.jpeg|75px|left]]|<center>Applying for a grant is easy.<p>If Wikimedia UK can help you improve Wikimedia projects, check out our [[grants|grants page]].</center>}} |
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| |[[File:Archives.png|x100px]] | | |[[File:Archives.png|x100px]] |
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| |align=center|{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2009|[[/2009|2009]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2010|<br>[[/2010|2010]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2011|<br>[[/2011|2011]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2012|<br>[[/2012|2012]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2013|<br>[[/2013|2013]]}} | | | align="center" |{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2009|[[/2009|2009]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2010|<br>[[/2010|2010]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2011|<br>[[/2011|2011]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2012|<br>[[/2012|2012]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2013|<br>[[/2013|2013]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2014|<br>[[/2014|2014]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2015|<br>[[/2015|2015]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2016|<br>[[/2016|2016]]}}{{#ifexist:Water_cooler/2017|<br>[[/2017|2017]]}} |
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| __TOC__ | | __TOC__ |
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| == Wikimania 2014 & Wikivoyage == | | == Kanban for editathons == |
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| I know that Wikimania 2014 isn't technically a WMUK project but this seemed a good place to bring it up: With the event happening in London, it would make sense for the London Wikivoyage pages to be improved for the benefit of all the visiting Wikimedians. We have a Wikimedia travel guide; it would be good to use it. While adding a listing to [[voy:en:London/City of London]], home of the Barbican, I noticed that the page status of many London districts can be quite low. The City is at guide status but most are just at usable status and only [[voy:en:London/Hampstead]] is star status (the scale goes stub-->outline-->usable-->guide-->star). This is within the chapter's sphere of responsibility but I don't know if this is something the chapter could/would be involved with, or just UK Wikimedians doing bits (I'm going to continue editing but I don't really know enough about the city to cover everything). - [[User:AdamBMorgan|AdamBMorgan]] ([[User talk:AdamBMorgan|talk]]) 14:37, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
| | [[File:WCCWiki4.jpg|thumb|A {{wp|kanban board}} at the Women in Classical Studies editathon at Senate House, London]] |
| :Hi Adam, thanks for your suggestion, which I think is a good one. You're correct that Wikimania itself isn't a Wikimedia UK project but it would make sense for us to try and encourage improvement of WikiVoyage content related to London - and in as many languages as we can, too. Do you have any suggestions on how to do this? If you;d like to deliver / promote a project around this then I'd be more than happy to lend my support and get involved in helping out on this - both as a staff member and as a volunteer :-) [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 14:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
| | I just saw the newsletter with a picture of the {{wp|kanban board}} used at the Women in Classical Studies editathon. What a great idea! It helps people share what they are working on. Helps to avoid edit conflicts. Enables organisers to list all the articles that have been improved. It could possibly work well for a recap session at the end too, where people talk about the changes they made. |
| ::I'm wondering whether this would be a good way to introduce (secondary/high) school children to wiki editing. We have been discussing possible ways to involve school children over the coming year and this may indeed be a relatively useful and certainly interesting way of doing it. --[[User:Toni Sant (WMUK)|Toni Sant (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Toni Sant (WMUK)|talk]]) 08:51, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
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| :::RE: "Do you have any suggestions" -- to be honest, no, not at the moment. At least, I'm not sure how best to do it. I should probably have waited to bring it up at the meet up in August, so I could discuss it a bit first. On the bright side, Wikivoyage is probably the easiest Wikimedia project on which to make micro-contributions. The majority of a standard guide article is made up of template-formatted bullet points, under standard verb-based headings (ie. "See", "Buy", "Eat", etc) which use templates of the same name (ie. <nowiki>{{buy}}, {{eat}}, etc</nowiki>). On top of which, a contribution could be just adding a good local restaurant. - [[User:AdamBMorgan|AdamBMorgan]] ([[User talk:AdamBMorgan|talk]]) 16:41, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
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| :::Also, be careful about wanting to introduce secondary/high school students to Wikipedia editing. There have already been a lot of rumblings on English Wikipedia about the need for better child protection policies. WMUK may need to look into the logistics of that with DBS (formerly CRB) checking for volunteers and so on. DBS checking is apparently now free for volunteers. I'm happy to have a DBS check done, as I've been happy to disclose my identity documents to the WMF. —[[User:Tom Morris|Tom Morris]] ([[User talk:Tom Morris|talk]]) 10:51, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
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| :It'd also be great if people could help improve London on OpenStreetMap. I do my part in making sure that certain drinking establishments are kept up-to-date, but there's a lot of other things in London that need improving! —[[User:Tom Morris|Tom Morris]] ([[User talk:Tom Morris|talk]]) 10:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == Open Government Partnership annual summit call for proposals ==
| | Who was involved with that editathon? Who has used it elsewhere? I would love to hear how it has been used in practice. |
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| Hello everyone. The Open Government Partnership is hosting its [http://www.opengovpartnership.org/open-government-partnership-annual-summit-%E2%80%93-call-proposals annual summit] on 31 October and 1 November. This could be a good opportunity to build networks in this area and find ways that we can demonstrate the value of Wikimedia projects. We may be able to find ways to influence thinking around open knowledge and how this can fit in with public policy. They have issued a call for proposals which has a deadline of 1 September. I wonder if this is of interest to anybody and, if so, this is a good place to discuss some ideas. Many thanks. [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 13:10, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
| | [[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 15:09, 3 February 2017 (GMT) |
| * Given the just-started discussions with City of Edinburgh Council (CEC) which — I hope — will lead to their webcasts of council meetings, plus Q&A sessions, ending up archived on MediaWiki servers, this is a point to ensure gets some discussion there. --[[n:en:Brian McNeil|Brian McNeil]] / <sup>[[n:en:User talk:Brian McNeil|talk]]</sup> 17:06, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == Student societies 2013 campaign == | | : Hi [[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]], I was the lead trainer at the [[ wikipedia:Meetups/UK/Institute_of_Classical_Studies_Jan_2017 |Women in Classical Studies editathon]]. I saw the kanban in an [https://www.instagram.com/p/BClfaSjhVdG/ Instagram post] for an [[wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism|Art+Feminism]] editathon. It worked much better than expected - a fantastic indicator of the [https://youtu.be/bAWxTPZZNrg?t=2m27s achievements of the day].[[User:Eartha78|Eartha78]] ([[User talk:Eartha78|talk]]) 19:02, 3 February 2017 (GMT) |
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| Wikimedia UK is keen to support [[student societies]] towards a better understanding and improvement of Wikipedia and its sister projects. We are currently looking for a volunteer to help me develop a strategic plan we've drafted for reaching out to university student unions across the UK. This work relates to WMUK's developing efforts to support Student Societies focused on editing Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects; it essentially involves an intensive period of concentrated effort to reach out to potential new student societies. Details available [[Student_societies_2013_campaign_volunteer|here]]. --[[User:Toni Sant (WMUK)|Toni Sant (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Toni Sant (WMUK)|talk]]) 16:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
| | ::Cool. So how did you use it? Did you get people to brainstorm a load of post-its of articles to look at, at the beginning of the day? Did you just say 'if you have an idea, stick it on the board'? Did you come with the post-its filled out already? [[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 10:25, 11 February 2017 (GMT) |
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| == 'Illustrating Wikipedia brochure' - your thoughts? ==
| | ::: The group were quite well prepared prior to the editathon. They had identified a number of articles to create - some had already done the research and started to writing in their sandbox. When we began the second part of the editathon they each committed to an article, wrote it on a sticky note and stuck it to the wall! Moving the notes from left to right was surprisingly motivating and a good excuse to stretch ones legs. Also used the sticky notes for an evaluation exercise at the end of the session. [[User:Eartha78|Eartha78]] ([[User talk:Eartha78|talk]]) 18:27, 16 February 2017 (GMT) |
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| Hi All, a new brochure about Wikimedia Commons has been produced. Designed to be a companion brochure to the Welcome to Wikipedia brochure, it covers what Commons is, how to upload files, how to use files, and the basics of free licenses - [[:File:Illustrating Wikipedia brochure.pdf]]. We would like to have a version printed in the UK as well. What are your thoughts on the content? Do you think we already have a brochure that does the job better?
| | ::::Thank you Eartha78. That is really interesting. I will use this next time I do an editathon. [[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 09:39, 19 February 2017 (GMT) |
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| Do let Stevie know (stevie.benton{{@}}wikimedia.org.uk or comment here) - we may even manage to get it ready for Wiki Loves Monuments in September!
| | == Wikimedia UK's plans for 2018 - community consultation == |
| | [[File:Programmes Consultation Video - Wikimedia UK.webm|centre|thumb|800x800px|Watch our video about our plans for 2018]] |
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| Thanks, [[User:Daria Cybulska (WMUK)|Daria Cybulska (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Daria Cybulska (WMUK)|talk]]) 14:34, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
| | Wikimedia UK is in the process of writing our proposal to the Wikimedia Foundation for funding during 2018/19. The deadline for the bid is 1st October after which it is assessed by staff at the Foundation, there is an opportunity for community feedback and questions, and the Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC) meet to consider proposals and make recommendations about grants. |
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| == Supporting the UK's first Wiki Loves Monuments competition ==
| | As 2018/19 is the final year of our 2016 - 2019 strategy, our programme for next year is in many ways a continuation of our activities in 2017 and falls under three key strands: |
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| Hi all,
| | # Diverse content and contributors |
| | # Promoting open knowledge |
| | # Education and Learning |
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| For those who haven't been following [[Commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 in the United Kingdom|organizational progress]] of the WLM competition to date, we have a small group of dedicated volunteers and staff who are working hard to ensure that the UK's first contribution to [http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-6000/largest-photography-competition the world's largest photographic competition] goes without a hitch. We have a nice [http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org.uk/ competition website] to attract competitors (many of whom will not be Wiki savvy, and will be new contributors & editors). We are expecting this to be quite a big deal, and the staff at [[:WMUK:Wikimedia UK|Wikimedia UK]] have been busy making arrangement for publicity as well as helping out with the lists. We hope to get press notices and image spreads in the Metro, which publishes in Bath, Birmingham, Brighton, Bristol, Cardiff, Derby, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, London, Manchester, Nottingham, Newcastle and Sheffield, as well as in The Times (thanks Stevie). The high-profile nature of the competition has been strengthened by the agreement of Steve Cole ABIPP, Head of Photography at [http://www.english-heritage.org.uk English Heritage], to join the national judging panel (jury) (thanks Richard N.)
| | These strands are directly related to our three strategic goals, which are to: |
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| The WLM volunteers will do everything they can to make sure the English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland lists are in a good state before the start of the national and international competitions - September 1st is just three weeks away now. We are all very aware that the deadline is looming, and that a quite a lot of work still remains to be done. Everyone is working as fast as they can and due to the rapidly approaching deadline it appears that unfortunately a few errors have slipped through. Really, we need more people to help out. There is a particular need for editors who are experienced with bots or scripts to pitch in ''now'', not only to help fix some of the errors, but also to help put up the remainder of the listed building data using the standard WLM templates. If you can help in any way, please make yourself known to the WLM team, either via my talk page, or by adding your name to [[Commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 in the United Kingdom/People|the helpers' page on Commons]]. If you can actively help now, you should also, please, sign up to the [http://lists.wikimedia.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wlm2013-l Wiki Loves Monuments UK mailing list], where you can obtain detailed information. You can see the current status of the data uploads by going to the [[Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 in the United Kingdom/planning/lists|Progress lists for Wikipedians]]; you can see there, for example, that we still need someone to deal with the uploading of almost all of the Scottish data. We can provide structured lists of data for those who can help with this.
| | * Increase the quality and quantity of coverage of subjects that are currently underrepresented on Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects |
| | | * Contribute to the development of open knowledge in the UK, by increasing understanding and recognition of the value of open knowledge and advocating for change at an organisational, sectoral and public policy level |
| If you can't help with bot work, but are able to contribute by tidying up or correcting the WP lists for your area, that would still be very much appreciated. You can get to the lists by going via one of the following links:
| | * Support the use of the Wikimedia projects as important tools for education and learning in the UK |
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| * [[:w:en:Listed buildings in Scotland|Listed buildings in Scotland]]
| | We would welcome input from the UK community into our plans for next year - which we are still shaping - and have created a short video to highlight our programme strands which you can watch [https://youtu.be/56s3Ch7sHbQ here]. You can give us feedback on our programme anytime, but if you’d like your views to be taken into account in our submission to the Wikimedia Foundation for funding, please do comment below by Friday 29th September. If you’d prefer to get in touch by email, feel free to contact me on lucy.crompton-reid@wikimedia.org.uk. |
| * [[:w:en:Listed buildings in England|Listed buildings in Wales]]
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| * [[:w:en:Listed buildings in England|Listed buildings in England]]
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| * [[:w:en:Listed buildings in Northern Ireland|Listed buildings in Northern Ireland]] | |
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| The best place to report systematic list errors, to ensure that the WLM volunteers see them, is not on this thread, but rather at the main [[Commons:Commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 in the United Kingdom/Organizers' help desk|WLM-UK help desk]].
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| Given the fact that the competition will be starting in just three weeks time (whether the UK team is ready or not!), I would ask that editors do not make any radical changes to the en Wikipedia lists at this stage which could inadvertently destroy the competition. In particular, '''please do not make mass reverts, unless you are able to put everything back correctly, and please do not remove or change the WLM template structure'''. This is essential for the automated upload tool to work properly, and also for the WLM international team to ensure that the data gets correctly harvested and copied into the worldwide Wiki Monuments Database.
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| After the competition has finished, at the end of September, would be a good time for the community to discuss - if desired - any possible template improvements to the way in which the UK data is standardized and displayed.
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| Thanks for bearing with us and for helping out if you can.
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| --[[User:MichaelMaggs|MichaelMaggs]] ([[User talk:MichaelMaggs|talk]]) 12:12, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
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| ::And thanks to you Michael and everyone working on this - absolutely brilliant and I hope we can lead the way in supporting the newbies (especially) to remain active after the main event has happened. Ideas anyone? [[User:Jon Davies (WMUK)|Jon Davies (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Jon Davies (WMUK)|talk]]) 08:26, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == Wikimania Wikidata and a talk ==
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| Hello everyone! :) Today DanielK(WMDE) told me that WMUK (or someone from WMUK that was at Wikimania) was looking for someone to 'give a wikidata introduction' talk of some sort! If anyone knows who was talking to the Wikidata team in Hongkong about this (maybe you are that person) then give me a shout as I may be able to help :) [[User:Addshore|Addshore]] ([[User talk:Addshore|talk]]) 20:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
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| :Awesome! Katie is probably the person to contact for details. (I did one of these a few months back and it went well - will happily pass on my notes - but don't have much free time at the moment to do others.) [[User:Andrew Gray|Andrew Gray]] ([[User talk:Andrew Gray|talk]]) 10:49, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
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| ::I got a poke from [[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] [http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Addshore&diff=5721343&oldid=5719941 here]. :) [[User:Addshore|Addshore]] ([[User talk:Addshore|talk]]) 10:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
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| :::Might have been me, I've had a few requests, I put a note on your talk page --[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 10:56, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == Last chance for comments on Train the Trainers ==
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| http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Train_the_Trainers_consultation
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| All comments welcomed especially on the recommendations.
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| [[User:Jon Davies (WMUK)|Jon Davies (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Jon Davies (WMUK)|talk]]) 08:24, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
| | There are several questions in particular that I’d like to ask: |
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| == Virtual Learning Environment workshop day ==
| | * Is there anything that Wikimedia UK should be doing more of, or new activities that we should consider, in 2018/19? |
| | * What work would you like to see us continue? |
| | * Is there anything you think we should do less of or stop doing? |
| | * How would you like to be involved in Wikimedia UK’s programme next year? |
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| Hello everyone, as you probably know Wikimedia UK has been developing a Virtual Learning Environment (VLE) to teach people about Wikipedia. Progress is going well and we'd like to invite you to a workshop day on Saturday 9 November. The workshop will highlight the features of the VLE, look at how we can make good use of the tool, seek community involvement in the content, maintenance and localisation of the tool. Lunch will be provided on the day and I'm hoping very much to see you there. Please do feel free to drop me a line with any questions. [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
| | With many thanks indeed for your input. |
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| | [[User:LucyCrompton-Reid (WMUK)|LucyCrompton-Reid (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:LucyCrompton-Reid (WMUK)|talk]]) 13:39, 21 September 2017 (BST) |
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| List of interested people:
| | == ACTRIAL and new users creating new pages at events == |
| *[[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]]
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| *Dhaval S Vyas
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| *John Byrne
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| * [[:w:en:User:Mrjohncummings|John Cummings]]
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| *Harry Mitchell
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| * [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]])
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| == Wikidata training ==
| | Hi All, |
| {{Discussion top|Event page created at [[Wikidata training]]. Please sign up there if you plan to attend. [[User:Katie Chan (WMUK)|Katie Chan (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Katie Chan (WMUK)|talk]]) 13:36, 2 September 2013 (UTC)}}
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| Hi all
| | Some thoughts on {{wp|WP:ACTRIAL}} and our events: |
| | *It makes sense to encourage new users to work in {{wp|Wikipedia:Drafts|Draft: name space}}. |
| | *This doesn't change the fact that it is worth asking people to create an account in advance (and to remember their password!) |
| | *We have to expect that some people won't create an account and most of those who have won't be auto-confirmed - this is OK. |
| | *If there are admins present at the event, they can make new users confirmed.... although I wouldn't stress over it - there is no harm in the Draft: name space. |
| | *All the above is less of an issue if we take the approach of [[#Training from the back of the room]] described above. If the group is split into teams that are deliberately set to have the full spread of ability, we can encourage people to help other team members, including the following: |
| | **Middle-ability people to show the people with no account how to create an account. |
| | **Experienced editors to help newer editors to find a page that might need editing. |
| | **Experienced editors to create pages that other team members are interested in editing. |
| | You could even get admins to confirm accounts of non-confirmed people in their team, but it might actually be better to not do that. If the experienced people in the team have actually created the article then at least we know it is in their contributions and so they can steward the article towards improvement. e.g. 1. the day after the event, they might go back to the article and tidy it up, 2. if the article gets tagged for deletion, they are better able to discuss it and improve it, whereas a new user may feel bitten. |
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| There will be Wikidata training available in central London by [[User talk:Addshore|Addshore]] on one of these weekends in September, please could you register your interest below by signing your name next to the dates you're available on. Venue to be confirmed depending on numbers and dates.
| | [[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 14:44, 25 September 2017 (BST) |
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| * '''Saturday 14th'''
| | :Obvious question, where do we find data on how many non-autoconfirmed users and IPs actually make pages that satisfy Wiki Criteria? [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.141|82.132.237.141]] 15:31, 26 September 2017 (BST) |
| *# [[User:Edwardx|Edwardx]] ([[User talk:Edwardx|talk]]) 12:39, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
| | ::[[:meta:Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Analysis and proposal|According to WMF research]], of the 1,180 articles created every day on the English Wikipedia, about 7% are by non-autoconfirmed editors. [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 16:55, 2 October 2017 (BST) |
| *# [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 12:06, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
| | :Thanks for your input Yaris678. Working in Draft: or User: space is probably going to be integral to dealing with this. I've not used Draft: much myself, but I'm keen on getting people to use their sandbox to prepare material and then copy it over. It does mean a chunk of the pages people work on aren't copied over the to the mainspace but that's a reasonable trade-off. [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 16:59, 2 October 2017 (BST) |
| *# [[User:Mr impossible|Mr impossible]] ([[User talk:Mr impossible|talk]]) 11:36, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
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| * '''Sunday 15th'''
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| *# [[User:Edwardx|Edwardx]] ([[User talk:Edwardx|talk]]) 12:39, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
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| *# [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 12:06, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
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| *# [[User:Mr impossible|Mr impossible]] ([[User talk:Mr impossible|talk]]) 11:36, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
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| * '''Saturday 21st'''
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| *# ...
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| * '''Saturday 22nd'''
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| *# ...
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| * '''Saturday 28th'''
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| *# [[User:Edwardx|Edwardx]] ([[User talk:Edwardx|talk]]) 12:39, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
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| *# [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''Harry Mitchell'''</font>]] | [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 12:27, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
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| * '''Sunday 29th'''
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| *# [[User:Edwardx|Edwardx]] ([[User talk:Edwardx|talk]]) 12:39, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
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| *# [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''Harry Mitchell'''</font>]] | [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 12:27, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
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| *# [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 16:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
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| Thanks | | :The [[#Training from the back of the room]] sounds like a really interesting idea, I'm interested in this kind of collaborative/peer learning process. Sadly for the bulk of editathons I manage, this wouldn't be applicable, as I'm generally working with a whole bundle new users, trying to advocated for further use in their organisations. [[User:Lirazelf|Lirazelf]] ([[User talk:Lirazelf|talk]]) 14:07, 3 October 2017 (BST) |
| | ::Thanks Lirazelf. I guess you'll have to rely on the first four bullets - especially the draft namespace. I think it would be useful to have a non-new user move the drafts across. Preferably during the training session, so people can see their work "live" on Wikipedia, which will create excitement. Ideally, well before the end of the training so that people can continue to edit their articles in main space - seeing that this is a normal thing to do is important. |
| | ::I fringe benefit of this approach is that each article edited will be in the contributions list of at least one non-new user. That way, they can "steward" the article to a certain extent. This will be particularly important if the article is nominated for deletion - having someone who knows the ropes will help to get the article in a position to keep - and help to argue that it should be kept. But more generally it will be useful, to keep the article quality up. |
| | ::[[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 12:59, 19 October 2017 (BST) |
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| --[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 12:10, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
| | ==Wiki Loves Monuments UK 2017 awards announced== |
| :Hello! Are there any more details on what the training will cover? Thanks! [[User:The Land|The Land]] ([[User talk:The Land|talk]]) 09:05, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
| | [[File:The Derelict West Pier of Brighton.jpg|thumb|1st prize: The derelict West Pier in Brighton, by Matthew Hoser]] |
| ::Whatever you want :) I am currently part of the Wikidata team and have a wide range of Wikidata knowledge. My plan is to cover the basic terms used on Wikidata, Basic use of Wikidata, the community and processes that are in place, current features, future planned features (as well as anything extra people want to know!). Naturally actually using wikidata on the day is key and if you let me know specific things you would like to be included I can prepare bits and prices in advance! Of course on the day I would also be happy to answer questions about anything I have missed! [[User:Addshore|Addshore]] ([[User talk:Addshore|talk]]) 12:35, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
| | I am very pleased to be able to announce the 2017 award winners for Wiki Loves Monuments in the UK. |
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| *I can't make any guarantees about availability just yet, but I'd love to learn a bit about Wikidata, and I'd hope other people who regularly deliver training or talk to people on behalf of WMUK would be keen, if only so we can answer any questions we're asked about it. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''Harry Mitchell'''</font>]] | [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 12:27, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
| | First place goes to '''Matthew Hoser''' for his image of the derelict West Pier in Brighton. |
| ::Just so you know I have just added the weekend dates back to the list above, depending on how things work out I may be able to do the training on two simultaneous weekends. I will choose which dates the training will take place on at the start of next week! [[User:Addshore|Addshore]] ([[User talk:Addshore|talk]]) 12:45, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
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| :::I think we could work something out for people who can't make it in person, maybe Google Hangouts would work? --[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 15:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
| | In second place was '''Paul Stümke''', who captured the Glenfinnan Viaduct at Loch Shiel. |
| ::::Indeed! [[User:Addshore|Addshore]] ([[User talk:Addshore|talk]]) 12:43, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
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| {{Discussion bottom}}
| | Third was '''Oliver Tookey''' for the De La Warr Pavilion in Bexhill on Sea. |
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| == Forthcoming page creation ==
| | The special prize for the best image taken in Scotland was awarded to '''Keith Proven''' for Smailholm Tower. |
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|
| Just a notice that I'm going to be making a lot of smallish sub-pages with custom CSS, in a pattern that may seem like a wikivous breakdown when looked at in Recent Changes, but the intention is to create a flowchart tool showing external partners how best to work with Wikimedia. I will do this for the Jisc collaboration project, but hopefully the way I implement it will mean there can be multiple entry points. [[User:MartinPoulter Jisc|MartinPoulter Jisc]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter Jisc|talk]]) 16:29, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
| | The special prize for the best image taken in Wales went to '''Sterim64''' for Craig-y-mor. |
| :Sounds very posh! [[User:Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry|Richard Symonds]] ([[User talk:Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry|talk]]) 10:45, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == Women's Engineering Society conference 4 October 2013 - would you like to attend to talk about Wikipedia? ==
| | You can see all of these images, and the other stunning pictures that were awarded Highly Commended status [[Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2017_in_the_United_Kingdom/Winners|at Wikimedia Commons]]. |
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|
| Hi All, [http://www.wes.org.uk/ WES] has invited Wikimedia UK to join their one day conference [http://www.wes.org.uk/energy#Programme] (annual opportunity for women in engineering and related technologies to get together to discuss energy technologies). They are running a parallel session that's much broader in scope - and we got a slot to talk about Wikipedia, gender gap and how Editathons could increase the presence of women, and especially women in engineering, on Wikipedia. I will be attending, and if a volunteer would like to join me to co present I should be able to secure a free entry. daria.cybulska{{@}}wikimedia.org.uk. Many thanks! [[User:Daria Cybulska (WMUK)|Daria Cybulska (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Daria Cybulska (WMUK)|talk]]) 14:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
| | Many congratulations to all of our prizewinners, and thanks to all who volunteered to help make the contest a success: contestants, judges, reviewers and Wikimedians in many roles. Thanks also for the kind support we received from the International team, from our friendly staff at Wikimedia UK, and from our 2017 prize sponsors, Wikimedia UK and Archaeology Scotland. [[User:MichaelMaggs|MichaelMaggs]] ([[User talk:MichaelMaggs|talk]]) 07:43, 31 October 2017 (GMT) |
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| == EduWiki 2013 Call for Proposals - extended deadline == | | == Effects of broadband == |
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| Please note that the [[EduWiki Conference 2013/Call for proposals|call for proposals]] deadline for the [[EduWiki Conference 2013]] has been '''extended to Friday 30 August at noon'''. --[[User:Toni Sant (WMUK)|Toni Sant (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Toni Sant (WMUK)|talk]]) 15:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
| | Looks like BT wants to push more people to faster internet where it has fiber: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bt-group-broadband/bt-incentivises-operators-to-move-customers-to-faster-broadband-idUKKBN1KE0LR |
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| == Open access hackathon ==
| | Is someone monitoring the trend of average internet speed and the impact it has on user activity in the Wikimedia projects? [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo bis]] ([[User talk:Nemo bis|talk]]) 08:43, 24 July 2018 (BST) |
| | |
| Hi, not sure if this is right place to leave a message, but there's an event coming up that might be of interest to any Wikimedians who are interested in [[wikipedia:open access|open access]] to research. The [http://oabutton.wordpress.com/about/ Open Access Button] team (Joe and David) are holding a hackathon in London on the weekend of 7-8 September, venue to be decided very shortly. They are very interested in working with Wikimedia on their ideas, and on the Wikimania 2014 team we're planning on getting them involved in the conference next year. They're new to Wikimedia so are very keen to meet people and get involved. You can [https://twitter.com/OA_Button contact them on twitter] if you're interested. Thanks. [[User:Lawsonstu|Lawsonstu]] ([[User talk:Lawsonstu|talk]]) 16:32, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
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| | |
| :Further information and sign-up details are now available on [http://oabutton.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/oa-button-hackathon-7-8th-september/ their blog]. "Millions of people a day are denied access to the research they both need and paid for because of paywalls. It doesn’t have to be like this, but we need your help. We’re two students from the UK making a tool to help change the system – it’s called the Open Access Button..." [[User:Lawsonstu|Lawsonstu]] ([[User talk:Lawsonstu|talk]]) 07:30, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == QRpedia update ==
| |
| | |
| Six months have gone by since the announcement by Chris Keating of the donation, and two months since he said they had a solution that would work. As of today, whois.com shows ownership of the QRpedia related domains as:
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| * qrpedia.org – Terrence Eden
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| * qrwp.org – Bamkin Family
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| * qrpedia.org.uk – Michael Peel
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| * qrpedia.net - Michael Peel
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| * qrpedia.co.uk – Bamkin Family
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| (Mike Peel has [http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMike_Peel%2FWikimedia_compensation&diff=5632545&oldid=5631781| stated] the ownership of his two domains has been transferred to WMUK (and WMUK reimbursed him for the purchase), and that he has lodged a bug report to have the records corrected)
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| | |
| Could an update on the transfer of the other domains and the future of QRpedia please be given? The last [http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes_13Jul13#QRpedia| board minutes] note that there were “four points that Roger needs to agree”. Has he agreed? If so, when will the transfer happen? If not, what are the steps from here? [[User:TheOverflow|TheOverflow]] ([[User talk:TheOverflow|talk]]) 20:16, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
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| | |
| :+1. Four days have passed since this question was asked. A holding response from a trustee or employee as acknowledgement would have been nice even if an answer is being debated in-camera. Considering the public statement on 9th February 2013 with the commitment that a "fuller statement will follow" and assurances after similar questions were repeated on 7th June 2013, it seems long overdue for the charity to share information with members. Referring to my diary, which included my recommendations when I was the Chairman to finalize the deal in 2012, more than two years have passed in negotiation and seeing several months of only issuing upbeat public statements eventually becomes a risk, rather than the board sticking to the value of being open and honest with members about issues. --[[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 12:02, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
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| | |
| ::Thanks for asking about this. I've passed the question on to people who have been directly involved in the work. Apologies for the delay - I only returned from annual leave today and have been catching up on many things. [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 15:58, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
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| :It has been 8 days since TheOverflow raised their question. The charity has a total of 15 staff and board members available, and in the light of several reports and press releases in this time, none appears willing or has permission to give a simple or prompt update. TheOverflow has gone ahead and updated the English Wikipedia article on QRpedia with the information they have. --[[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 08:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
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| == Wiki Loves Monuments UK - call for volunteers to pre-screen entries in September ==
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| I'm unsure how many uploads we can expect to get as part of [http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org.uk/ WLM in the UK] over the next month, but the signs are that it could be in the tens of thousands - far too many for us to give straight to our three-person jury to review.
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| That means that we will need one or more levels of pre-screening, to knock out the images that are clearly not good enough to pass on to the next stage. We need to plan to do this pre-screening on a daily basis, as the competition proceeds, as there may well not be enough time to do the whole lot in October.
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| I'm looking for volunteers who could help online with this, either throughout September or at least for a day or two. No experience is needed, other than a reliable ability to distinguish a good photo from a poor one. Although the entries will be from the UK, anyone from anywhere can make a difference.
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| If you can help, please let me know on my talk page, or add your name to the [[Commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 in the United Kingdom/People|pre-screening team]].
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| Many thanks, --[[User:MichaelMaggs|MichaelMaggs]] ([[User talk:MichaelMaggs|talk]]) 11:39, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == Call for Editathon and/or Hackathon ideas at EduWiki 2013 ==
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| In an effort to provide a wider range of activities over the weekend of the [[EduWiki Conference 2013]], we are now [[EduWiki_Conference_2013/Event_ideas|calling for ideas for possible editathons and/or hackathons]] to take place during or immediately after the conference. We are particularly looking forward to hearing from people who already have the relevant links needed for such events. Wikimedia UK would be able to cover expenses, as appropriate. The deadline for proposals is Friday 6 September 2013 at noon BST. --[[User:Toni Sant (WMUK)|Toni Sant (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Toni Sant (WMUK)|talk]]) 12:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
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| == Getting the word out about the Wiki Loves Monuments competition ==
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| As you probably know, the [http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org.uk Wiki Loves Monuments competition] starts '''this Sunday, 1st September''', and we would like to get as many entries from the UK as we possibly can.
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| Please do your bit by letting friends and family around the country know, and please also spread the word to local societies that you may be involved with. Of particular interest are local historical groups, civic groups and photographic clubs.
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| Please feel free to use the text below as an email template. It's designed to be sent to a society, but should be easy to change if you are emailing friends.
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| --[[User:MichaelMaggs|MichaelMaggs]] ([[User talk:MichaelMaggs|talk]]) 14:37, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
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| <div style="background-color:#dbfafb">
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| <div style="border:1px solid black">
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| Hi
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| I am emailing in case your members might be interested in contributing photographs of their local listed buildings to the international '''Wiki Loves Monuments competition''', which runs throughout the month of September. I am a volunteer with the charity '''Wikimedia UK.'''
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| Entries can be images taken specially for the competition, or can be pre-existing images, and will be available for others to use on '''Wikipedia'''.
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| I would be most grateful if you would be good enough to bring this competition to the attention of your members. The link is '''www.wikilovesmonuments.org.uk'''
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| If you or any of your members have queries, please feel free to email me directly.
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| Thanks for your help, and regards,
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| . . .
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| ____________________________________________________________________________________
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| '''World's largest photography contest comes to the UK - record your local listed buildings'''
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| September is the month when summer begins drawing to a close, the football season is in full swing and the leaves begin to change colour. You may not be aware that it's also the month of the world's largest photography competition.
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| '''Wiki Loves Monuments''' is a global competition, open to everyone. In the UK the aim is to gather together freely-licensed high quality photographs of the UK's listed buildings for use on '''Wikimedia Commons''' and '''Wikipedia'''. And it's open to everybody.
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| Wikipedia has a global audience of over 500 million people every month, making Wiki Loves Monuments a chance for entrants to have their photography potentially reach a very large audience. For example, the article about Hadrian's Wall receives around 700,000 visitors a year while the article about London is viewed around 4.5 million times a year.
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| Aside from being great fun, Wiki Loves Monuments is a way of capturing a snapshot of our nation’s cultural heritage for future generations, documenting our country’s most important historic buildings. Over time, the collections gathered throughout the competition will become an incredibly useful historical resource.
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| Entries can be images taken specially for the competition, or can be pre-existing images.
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| Michael Maggs, volunteer member of the Wiki Loves Monuments UK steering committee and a Wikimedia UK Trustee, said: “''The contest is a great way not only to contribute to Wikipedia but also to record and share with the world images of your local historic environment. You don't need to be a professional-quality photographer to upload photos and help make a difference''.”
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| Jon Davies, Chief Executive of '''Wikimedia UK''', the charity that is helping to support the initiative, said: "''Taking part in Wiki Loves Monuments for the first time is very exciting. We’re hoping that the UK will provide a leading contribution to the contest and are calling on photographers, amateur and professional alike, to help to make this happen. We'd love for the global winner to come from the UK''."
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| To learn more about the competition and to get involved, visit '''www.wikilovesmonuments.org.uk'''
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| ____________________________________________________________________________________
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| </div>
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| </div>
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| == Proposed deletion: [[Wikimedia_projects]] ==
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| I'm proposing deletion of this page. It should be (and is) part of all our communications that Wikimedia is about more than just Wikipedia. But that page doesn't achieve this. Because it's not easily findable, it's easy for it to be neglected and go out of date (as has happened). It doesn't have information that isn't duplicated in lots of other places. [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 14:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
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| :One source of confusion I have come across a few times for people dealing with the chapter is the distinction between "Wikimedia projects" and projects organised by Wikimedia UK. Something that explains this could be useful and I'm not sure deleting this page improves anything. [[Special:Contributions/94.185.212.146|94.185.212.146]] 18:46, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
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| ::It's out of date information, it's duplicate information (which Google penalises) and for good reasons it's not likely to be maintained. It will be misleading to a newcomer who stumbles across it. So its continued existence is negative rather than positive or neutral. That's the deletion rationale. Fair point about the ambiguity of "projects". [[User:MartinPoulter Jisc|MartinPoulter Jisc]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter Jisc|talk]]) 09:40, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
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| :::Only one page link to [[Wikimedia projects]] (apart from the water cooler), and I don't think removing that link from the page would be an issue. I'll delete that page tomorrow if no one objects. [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:32, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
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| == Proposed deletion: [[Activities/Geographical diversity]] ==
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| I'm very keen that we monitor the geographic diversity of our activity. However, this page doesn't seem to be the way to do it. It was a good idea at the time to have an "audit" of our activities around the UK, but it hasn't become embedded in the way we work. It seems to me that the same function could be performed by intelligent use of the category system (Events in North-East England, Events in Northern Ireland...) and that this is more likely to be embedded. Someone creating a page for an event will look at an existing page for a similar event and copy the features it has. So we just make sure past events and geography-specific activities have a geographical category, that should send things on their way (or am I being too optimistic?) In the Economics Network (also mandated to serve the whole UK) we used to categorise our activity according to which of ten broad regions it happened in. [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 14:41, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
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| :I think that page has been long forgotten about. It can be deleted or tagged historical as far as I'm concerned. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''Harry Mitchell'''</font>]] | [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 14:51, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
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| ::There are no incoming links to the page apart from this page and two user talk pages. If there are no objections by tomorrow I'll delete it. [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 16:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
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| :::Thanks Richard. At some point I'll start adding geographical categories to stuff so we're still tracking that aspect of diversity. [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 12:31, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
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| == Style for the blog ==
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| I strongly recommend more use of the --more-- tag on the blog, so that the blog front page (and WMUK front page) gives only short teasers and people have to click through
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| * Not all our readers are interested in any given blog post, but given the diversity of the topics, almost all of them should be interested in at least one recent post. Given how surprisingly reluctant users are to scroll, it's better to make it easier for them to get an overview (headlines and teasers) for a lot of posts.
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| * If people have to click through to read a post, then the viewing stats for individual posts give a useful metrics for the interest they attract. If people can read all recent posts from the front page, then that potential for evaluation is lost.
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| I also recommend just having no more than short teasers of blog posts on the wiki main page (sometimes this happens; sometimes there are longer extracts or the full text of the post). I know this complicates things for the Welsh translation of the blog: maybe a separate page can be created for Welsh summaries of the blog posts?
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| * Google apparently penalises duplicate content.
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| * In my webmaster job, I've conducted usability tests as well as benefiting from consultants who test usability for sites like the Guardian and BBC. It's amazing how reluctant desktop users are to scroll (just think about how few of the general public are aware of Wikipedia's sister sites, even though you can see them all by scrolling down Wikipedia's home page) and hence a good front page design gets all important items in a desktop user's first screenful. This was really rammed home to me by the consultants. Our text in the "About Wikimedia UK" section is crucial for anyone visiting for the first time, and so arguably are the contact details underneath.
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| Also, can the left hand navigation on the blog be updated to match that of the main site? They've got very out of sync. Stevie, I recognise you're working hard on a lot of different things at the moment, but maybe this is something a developer can implement? Cheers, [[User:MartinPoulter|MartinPoulter]] ([[User talk:MartinPoulter|talk]]) 15:53, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
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| ::Hi Martin, thanks very much for these useful and thoughtful comments. I've made a note to spend a bit of time looking at this and other blog things later this week. [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 15:23, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
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| :::Very helpful. We really need to think hard about what we look like to the outside world. [[User:Jon Davies (WMUK)|Jon Davies (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Jon Davies (WMUK)|talk]]) 09:52, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
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| == Photography training workshops for volunteers ==
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| Hello everyone. I've been looking in to the possibility of offering some photography training for Wikimedia volunteers. This is definitely something we can do in the form of one-day workshops for small groups. This would be delivered at no cost to the volunteers so at this point I'd like to assess how much appetite there is for this kind of workshop and get a sense of how many people would like to take part. This would be a really worthwhile activity and help to empower volunteers and give them additional skills that can be used not only when contributing to Wikimedia projects, but elsewhere, too. If you are interested, please do let me know, either by replying here or sending me an email. Thank you. [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 10:55, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
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| :Twitter user and Wiki Loves Monuments participant @secretlondon has expressed an interest so far. [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 12:29, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
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| ::RodW is interested in a session in the Bath / Bristol area. [[User:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|Stevie Benton (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Stevie Benton (WMUK)|talk]]) 13:02, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
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| :::I'd also be interested in the Bath / Bristol area. [[User:Rwendland|Rwendland]] ([[User talk:Rwendland|talk]]) 13:20, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
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| ::::I'd love to go to a workshop like this. I'm not averse to travelling, so Bristol would be fine (Bath's a bit of a pain but not impossible). [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''Harry Mitchell'''</font>]] | [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 16:39, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
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| == Wikimedia UK contact database migration ==
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| This weekend wikimedia uk will be migrating its contact records management database, Civi CRM from its current platform hosting (Joomla) to a new platform (Drupal) and the most up to date version of the software available.
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| This will mean at some points of the weekend users will notice changes on the donate.wikimedia.org.uk domain as the new database and web forms are migrated and re-established.
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| If you experience an issue please log it on the WMUK instance of Bugzilla - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org.uk/ - you can register an account with your email of choice and this will be activated for you,
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| User testing of the migrated version will commence on Monday and will hopefully establish quickly any remaining issues, allowing the chapter to continue to use the database as before, with a view to moving on to adding new features that will allow for a better experience all round (including better sign-up forms for new and renewing members, events forms and so on)
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| Please do feel free to reply here or email me directly (katherine.bavage{{@}}wikimedia.org.uk) with questions.
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| Thanks all! [[User:Katherine Bavage (WMUK)|Katherine Bavage (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Katherine Bavage (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
| | ::Hi [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo bis]], I'm not sure that our small charity has the capacity to do something like this, or how it might benefit us. You are welcome to expand on why you think this would be a good idea if you like. [[User:John Lubbock (WMUK)|John Lubbock (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:John Lubbock (WMUK)|talk]]) 12:29, 2 April 2019 (BST) |
